• Welcome to TONMO, a community of cephalopod experts, hobbyists and enthusiasts. Established in 2000, we are the founders of TONMOCON, and birthplace of World Octopus Day and Cephalopod Awareness Days. ...You can register here, and Introduce Yourself. To rid yourself of ads and enjoy other perks, become a Supporter for just $25/year. (Now accepting bitcoin & other crypto!) ...Follow us on Twitter and YouTube for more cephy goodness.
  • Looking to buy a cephalopod? Check out Tomh's Cephs Forum, and this post in particular shares important info about our policies as it relates to responsible ceph-keeping.

Zebra Octopus For Sale In The Bay Area (a good thing?)

Status
Not open for further replies.

DWhatley

Kraken
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
21,020
Thales,
Would you take delivery and care for the Octos until they are sold? Ohhh, I am bad :pohlsepia! THAT would be a Big plus but I wonder how feasible. You could request buyers to join TONMO (you CAN lead a horse to water ...) which would give the critters a better chance at survival.

Keeping a running inventory here would be exceptional even if we had to gag and tie Tony.
 

Thales

Colossal Squid
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
3,027
I don't know how viable the idea is at all. People are often interested in cephs, they will even send many excited emails, but all to often, they back out (or don't even bother to reply anymore). Its quite frustrating. :smile:
 

Thales

Colossal Squid
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
3,027
DHyslop;87844 said:
But how many people are there out there who can care for them? I like the idea, but I'm worried most of them would sit unsold.

I am beginning to think you are right. Perhaps, I will try to intercept animals that show up on the wholesale local scene and post about them here.
 
Joined
Sep 16, 2005
Messages
4,935
Thales;88209 said:
I am beginning to think you are right. Perhaps, I will try to intercept animals that show up on the wholesale local scene and post about them here.

I think that sounds like a better idea - speaking from the experience of finding homes for 200+ babies :bonk: I think Baby A has pretty much saturated the market, at least on Tonmo...
 

Thales

Colossal Squid
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
3,027
And you are giving them away. :smile:
When I was getting wc eggs I had pain of a time trying to sell them off, even just at my cost. The market just doesn't seem to be there. (BTW, I am so glad you are having luck that I haven't been able to achieve with baby a's eggs - I might break down my whole system and start from scratch when my current cuttle batch goes to big lagoon in the sky)
Sadly, I think that means that there really is no way to control the market, and exporters will keep exporting whatever they think will make them money. Why should the wholesalers let me intercept the cephs when they know they can make more money by selling them to LFS?
 

Thales

Colossal Squid
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
3,027
I got a wunderpus last week from a wholesaler, so I have been thinking about this thread a whole lot recently. I happened to be there doing some plumbing work when they came in, so I was able to get one of the two. Do I post my pics and experience, or do I hide it all in the hope that it won't generate more interest in these animals?

I think any MO store knows that there is profit to be made in any 'rare' animal - the markup of regular fish is unbelievable as is the small amount of money that the collector gets for collecting that fish.

IMO, any 'zebra' octo is going to be sold regardless of anything posted anywhere because not only are cephs pretty cool, but a striped one is cool to just about anyone. The barn is already open.

So, does posting or not posting about them really have any effect? I am sure it does, but not sure how much. It could be argued that TOMNO itself promotes the sale of wild caught cephs, or that the posting of any ceph pics on any forum or in any magazine does the same. Perhaps the posting of experience with these animals with 'educational' caviats would actually be the best solution.

Over the years I have seen 'boycotts' of hard to keep animals in MO fail miserably mostly because anyone who cares enough to boycott an animal is probably one of the most qualified people to keep that animal. The people who care most watch as people who don't know what they are doing kill the animals, or worse, watch healthy animals waste away in the LFS only to be replaced by another soon after. It also seems to me that if one shops at an LFS that carries an animal that one feels should be boycotted, one is actually supporting the collection of that animal. For the boycott to even begin to feel like it has any kind of effect, IMO the entire store (and in reality, perhaps the entire hobby) should be boycotted until they change their practices. Some LFS do listen, however that only keeps their nose clean, and the hard to keep animals go to another store that cares less or knows less. Boycotting purchasing an animal does keep your own nose clean and that does seem to count for something, but at the same time it denies the community of your experience that could lead to captive breeding of the animal.

Thanks for reading my ramble. What do you guys think?
 
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Messages
3,026
It's a dilemma, and I don't know the answer. For starters, though, if you decide to post pics and experiences, why not keep them limited to the supporters forum?
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Messages
722
My observations show that if an exotic animal like a zebra octopus or ANY octopus shows up at a store, it WILL be sold. In most cases, the purchase was one of impulse without much knowledge of the care requirements. A local store here always has cephs during the right season, including exotic ones and I see people buy them and judging from their conversations and the questions they ask the employees, they probably are thrown into random tanks not made for cephs.

Unfortunately, I do not believe that the dismally small percentage of people that will boycott them will make even the slightest difference compared to the masses that goto fish stores and buy things impulsively. (My first octopus I admit was just that..an Impulse buy many yrs ago) I believe the only thing that can stop the import of these animals is something on a much higher level such as the creation of some law are legislation that prevents it. These stores/wholeseller are of course businesses and motivated by profit. For every 1 person that would refuse to buy a ceph, theres probably another 100 that would.
 

erich orser

TONMO Supporter
Registered
Joined
Nov 29, 2004
Messages
1,632
I have to agree with you, Paradox, until there are laws in place to deal with this kind of crap, we'll continue to deal with it. Lucky (in this case), that Thales got the specimens and is trying to take care of them - more lucky that it was through a wholesaler - which means more yuppies won't see one (while casually wandering through an aquarist store of the lowest-level) and tell his mate, "Sure, Muffy, oh, the stripes match that pair of stockings you just bought, of COURSE I'll by them for you, sweetie."

For the record, however, we don't even know how common these species are out there. The home aquarist industry could conceivably do what close-to-shore mining, construction, sewage-disposal, and other industries might do to diminish these evolutionary shooting stars even when it's been just twenty-odd years since "discovering" them. Normally I'd be against Thales' "rescue" of this animal, just based upon a terror that this will spread, but if any of my colleagues here can do some good in this situation for the invertebrate individual, it's probably Richard. I would advise any amateurs, however, to remember that Richard has zero guarantee of success. The scientists across the Bay in Berkeley haven't had much luck with these guys, and therefore you probably won't either. Best to not purchase them, to fight their importation, and to try to shut this down entirely. Let these amazing fellow-citizens of our planet live where they were bred. Simple as that. Save up your cash, fly there, and go scuba diving with them. Carry that joyous memory with you later. Don't bring them here. They don't belong here. They're so-far impossible to keep alive in captivity. Plus, there's zero-guarantee of how widespread they are in the first place. How would somebody like to feel - "Hey I got this real cool octopus that died within two months of me buying it" - if they contributed to the extinction of a truly amazing species? Jeez, buy a bimac. They're just as cool. They're still an octopus.
 

DWhatley

Kraken
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
21,020
Thales and Paradox,

You have both voiced what I have been thinking as this topic continues to be discussed.

I have to both agree and disagree with Sorseress' immediate solution. I agree that having to become a paying member to read material that might be used inappropriately has merit BUT I recently have become frustrated trying to locate information because so much of what is presented with the search engines is locked into subscriptions. If someone is TRYING to do research on a topic, how many subscriptions do you have to try just to obtain a page worth of relevant material? I feel that locking information away takes us back to the dark ages where only the clergy had the right to read (so, OK, building a nuclear bomb should not be in the public library). The internet started as scientific library for idea and research exchange but the new directions are disconcerting.

I know Roy felt that publishing the price of one of the rare octos encouraged more capture but one could make the opposite point that the only people reading these notes are people interested in the success of the animals. Case and point is my new LSF (that won't be in business long - nickel bet). They DON'T look for how to care for even the common corals that are dying in their tanks. They are the kind that would likely buy an octopus (the actual case is a nautilus) and not find out something as simple as the water temperature requirements. I just can't agree that keeping care and observations away from information seekers does more good than harm. Perhaps I am naive.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top