Wunderpus Photogenicus ?

[dleo4590]

The eating arm tips thing could be related to hunger but more likely could be related to stress due to shipment and tank acclimation, or the animal could have some sort of disease or bacterial degradation, but that is less likely than them eating the arms from stress.

When I have an animal losing arm tips the first thing I look towards is water chemistry. If it's a new animal I usually don't worry too much unless I see the condition getting worse every day. Have you had any drastic swings in water chemistry in the past few days?

I am planning on testing water parameters today but have not so I don't know yet if it's in correlation.

 

[dleo4590]

That sounds like a good plan. How are the fish interacting with the octopus? Do you commonly see the animal all curled up in a den or are they moving around the tank normally? Maybe the fish are picking at the mantle of the octo and that is what is causing the stress you are seeing? I don't typically house my octopuses with other critters because they often get picked on.

Well it is more active with us than it was at the shop but I put a big hollow barnacle in with it like the CROs but it has not tried to hide or conceal itself yet. I was actually planning on rigging the bottom of the fish fry box it's in so I could put a thin layer of substrate to help it feel more natural. I think our plan now is when it's bigger to let it out into Turq's 125 gallon tank that we've reef aquascaped. We are currently in the process of converting our other 125 gallon freshwater into saltwater so when the CROs are big enough we can divide it in half with an acrylic sheet rigged with many small holes to keep water flow and filtration constant. The smaller fish don't seem to mind but the bigger ones seem to stay on opposite ends. I think if the mimic were actively pursuing it'd be different but he kind of just lets them come to him.

 

[pkilian]

That sounds like a good plan! It seems like you've done all you can to mitigate stress for the animal, so I would be patient and observant and just see how things pan out in the next few days. I would spend less time poking around in their enclosure and only interact with the animal once/day to try and offer food.

I'm guessing they are just a bit stressed out from all the environment changes in the past few weeks, and they will likely settle into a normal routine after a few more days in your setup.

Keep us updated!

 

[dleo4590]

That sounds like a good plan! It seems like you've done all you can to mitigate stress for the animal, so I would be patient and observant and just see how things pan out in the next few days. I would spend less time poking around in their enclosure and only interact with the animal once/day to try and offer food.

I'm guessing they are just a bit stressed out from all the environment changes in the past few weeks, and they will likely settle into a normal routine after a few more days in your setup.

Keep us updated!

Thanks as an animal lover and care taker I give or try to give all my animals, not just cephs, the best I can! So it's great to hear that from others too.

 

[pkilian]

Yeah I would remove those fish from the octopuses enclosure. I forgot that you had it in the fish fry box and not in the main tank itself. The octopus doesn't really have a place they can go to escape from the fish, and the fish will take bites at the octopuses mantle and prevent it from being comfortable in its space.

I would leave the octo in their box alone, and only offer food either via a stick feed, so you can remove the prey if they don't eat it, or add a crab or fish for a few hours, and then remove it afterwards for the night if it goes uneaten during those couple hours.

 

[dleo4590]

Yeah I would remove those fish from the octopuses enclosure. I forgot that you had it in the fish fry box and not in the main tank itself. The octopus doesn't really have a place they can go to escape from the fish, and the fish will take bites at the octopuses mantle and prevent it from being comfortable in its space.

I would leave the octo in their box alone, and only offer food either via a stick feed, so you can remove the prey if they don't eat it, or add a crab or fish for a few hours, and then remove it afterwards for the night if it goes uneaten during those couple hours.

ok will remove them now.

 

[dleo4590]

Just finished testing water chemistry and everything is in normal range.

KH: 11.4 dKH
pH: 8.4
NH3: 0 mg/L
NO2: 0.1 mg/L
NO3: 25 mg/L
PO4: 0.25 mg/L
Ca: 480ppm
Si: 0.03 mg/L
O2: 9
Mg: 1430 mg/L
Sr: 4 mg/L
Iodide: 0.03 mg/L
Iodate: <0.03 mg/L

Compared to April 5th parameters

KH: 14.1 dKH
pH: 8.4
NH3: 0 mg/L
NO2: 0 mg/L
NO3: 25 mg/L
PO4: 0.25 mg/L
Ca: 500 ppm
Si: 0.03 mg/L
O2: 6
Mg: 1500 mg/L
Sr: 10 mg/L
Iodide: 0.03 mg/L
Iodate: <0.03 mg/L

 

[Tomh]

gut loaded ghost shrimp sometimes works!!! Also very small pieces of shrimp,silversides. I have had 3 wonderpus and they all stayed small(mantle about 1 inch),tentacles about 7. Mimics are usually much larger!!!

 

[dleo4590]

Can you get a better image of the mantle?

I posted some more pics of the mantle and a quick video, what do you think?

 

[DWhatley]

I have not kept any exotics but have found that food size matters with the Caribbean varieties. Start with food the size of its eye, I believe what you are offering is way too large and intimidating. Once it starts eating you can gradually increase the food size.

 

[dleo4590]

I have not kept any exotics but have found that food size matters with the Caribbean varieties. Start with food the size of its eye, I believe what you are offering is way too large and intimidating. Once it starts eating you can gradually increase the food size.

I don't have anything that small this is a very small mimic. It also ate most of it's arms. I also let it out into the big tank to prevent it from doing that but it's not doing too well but it had most of it's arms when I had and earlier was the first time I saw it and so it was a shock to see it with two arms left. There are small fish and it does catch them and kill them but doesn't eat them. It did the first day but I've tried everything and it won't take anything. It's just self mutilating at this point and I don't think it can really catch anyting anyway with two arms....

 

[tonmo]

ugh - autophagy. I'm sorry you're dealing with that.

 

[dleo4590]

I don’t know if Gizmodo is a reliable source for info but I found this publication about Autophagy: There May Be A Disease That Makes An Octopus Eat Its Own Arms

 

[tonmo]

It's unclear if it's caused by stress, infection, neurological problem, etc. Here's a past TONMO thread from another ceph keeper:

Why is my octo chewing off its tentacles?

I recently caught a wild bimac. this is the second wild bimac I've had, and the first one did great for over a year, so I have some experience. The new one appears to be full grown and I think it was already holed up, and in the final stage of its life, when I caught it. It has stayed hidden...

www.tonmo.com

Susceptible to pathogens?

With this theory about the Haitian supplied octos being affected by some unknown problem, I was wondering if there are any possible pathogens/viruses octopuses are susceptible to? My thinking is based on my experience with fish/vertebrates so it might be completely off-base, but I am worried...

www.tonmo.com

 

[dleo4590]

It's unclear if it's caused by stress, infection, neurological problem, etc. Here's a past TONMO thread from another ceph keeper:

Why is my octo chewing off its tentacles?

I recently caught a wild bimac. this is the second wild bimac I've had, and the first one did great for over a year, so I have some experience. The new one appears to be full grown and I think it was already holed up, and in the final stage of its life, when I caught it. It has stayed hidden...

www.tonmo.com

Susceptible to pathogens?

With this theory about the Haitian supplied octos being affected by some unknown problem, I was wondering if there are any possible pathogens/viruses octopuses are susceptible to? My thinking is based on my experience with fish/vertebrates so it might be completely off-base, but I am worried...

www.tonmo.com

Well the publication I found and am attaching shows that there was a study that was conducted back in 1998 that suggests they've known that the autophagy is not caused from stress, lack of food or boredom. The abstract at the very beginning states, "Although the data are still limited, they indicate that autophagy is not caused by hunger or stress, but is an infectious, deadly disease... Some data suggests that autophagy is caused either by a substance released by the animal itself or, more likely, viruses or bacteria; these, in turn, seem to infect the nervous system." My boyfriend has his PhD and was able to access this information and has verified it's authenticity and/or it's validity within the scientific literature. It sounds as if they've known about this for a while...It seems that this was the only article ever published in the scientific community by cephalopod researchers, regarding autophagy.