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[Locked]: Controversial thread on low-end ceph keeping

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cthulhu77

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Why would we shoot you for that? :smile:

Actually, these are NOT "new" ideas...these are the same old rehash of what people did early on in keeping marine aquariums...before we found out why it didn't work so well.

Maximum care= Maximum results.

That is just how it works.
 
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Try going to a Yankee game in Yankee stadium, stand in the middle of their bleachers, and cheer for the Red Socks. You will be lucky to get out on your own power.

I think alot of this, I am sorry to say, can also be attributed to proper forum etiquette.
alexfevery;80927 said:
Many people say you MUST have protien skimming, I have found this to be not true so you can save yourself a 120 bucks...
alexfevery;80927 said:
avoiding a protein skimmer...
alexfevery;80927 said:
I would bet most(if not all) of you have never attempted keeping one in a 30 gallon. You havent tried it...
alexfevery;80927 said:
allot of the stuff that people claim is an absolute necesity is not so necesary.

In most areas you don't stand up on a soapbox and tell everyone that they are wrong, that what they are informing people on is "not true", and that "what people claim is a absolute necessity is not so".

TONMO is a great group of people trying to help others with less experience successfully select, raise and maintain cephalopods.

Some things can work for some people. We are all VERY careful to be sure to give caveats for things that have worked in the past - so not to misinform anyone. Half the information is just enough to be dangerous.

I give you points for actually coming back on and defending your stance. I thought your thread was just made to incite a riot - it was worded so.

I am not attacking you personally, I just want you to know that this type of response is very rare and must be instigated.

I would be very interested in hearing some statistical data on using seawater. I live in Florida and I never have used it in fear of the dying phytoplankton causing a spike.

I would be happy to give statistical data on using a protein skimmer -doing before and after nitrate tests and O2 levels. I would much rather supply this than state that "it may be detrimental..".

This information will be online and searchable for a long time. We all know people will say "I don't have to cycle...they said it on TONMO."
 

DHyslop

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marinebio_guy;81014 said:
People have different skill levels a person who is just starting out should not start off with a bare bones system. However, someone with more knowledge could do it.

But the original poster is essentially saying: "Hey, all you newbies: you don't need to bother with complex filters or big tanks and you don't need to wait for your tank to cycle, either! Get a glass box--as small as is convenient--fill it with ocean water and rocks and put your animals in!"
 

alexfevery

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Im sorry I dont have time to look thru all these posts, I never thought I would get such oposition. You are all really into sparing absolutly no expence. later this weekend i will take the time to read all this.
 

cthulhu77

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alexfevery;81020 said:
Im sorry I dont have time to look thru all these posts, I never thought I would get such oposition. You are all really into sparing absolutly no expence. later this weekend i will take the time to read all this.

No problem. I don't understand most of this last paragraph that you wrote, so any clarification would be very, very helpful.

As stated before, you will find that you think of as being "a new way to keep cephs" was attempted from the 1800's and on, until we learned how to actually correctly maintain them in captivity.

Research, such a good thing.

Greg
 

DHyslop

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alexfevery;81020 said:
You are all really into sparing absolutly no expence.

Its not so much that we're hog-wild about spending money, just that we're adamant about making the very best homes that we can for our animals. Most of my components (overflow, biofilter, feeder tanks, skimmer manifold, spraybar, dividers, auto-topoff) are DIY. Most of the big-ticket items that aren't DIY (sump tank, return pump, skimmer, skimmer pump) were bought used for pennies on the dollar. Then again for me, tinkering and putting things together is just as enjoyable as having a cephalopod!

I like to think of it in terms of these three words:

Quality, Fast, Cheap.

Whenever you build a system you can pick any two words but you can't have all three :smile: I think we've all jumped on you because you seem to be advocating fast and cheap over quality.

Dan
 

monty

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DHyslop;81025 said:
I like to think of it in terms of these three words:

Quality, Fast, Cheap.

Whenever you build a system you can pick any two words but you can't have all three :smile: I think we've all jumped on you because you seem to be advocating fast and cheap over quality.

You could have saved NASA a lot of grief if you'd told them that in the late 80s...
 

alexfevery

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I called in sick for work today so I can enjoy my friday playing CS and unfortunately arguing about octopuses. I feared that this would happen. Believe it or not, its not easy arguing against an entire forum. So please dont refrase what I say to make it sound ridiculos and use completely unrelated comparisons like, 100 cats in a trailler or kennel or baseball games.

Most of the stuff Im saying is actualy found in books too.
 

cthulhu77

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Alex, certainly some of the stuff you have proposed can be found in books. Mostly dating from the pre-70's, those old tomes that talked about the ridiculous need for cycling, etc.

Your ideas are nothing new, they have just been disproved over time with experience.

It is too bad that you are getting such a negative baptism here though, I am sure you are interested in cephs, their habits and habitats, which is what Tonmo is really all about. Not doing anything fast or easy, because knowledge never is.

Greg
 
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