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[Locked]: Controversial thread on low-end ceph keeping

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Why would we shoot you for that? :smile:

Actually, these are NOT "new" ideas...these are the same old rehash of what people did early on in keeping marine aquariums...before we found out why it didn't work so well.

Maximum care= Maximum results.

That is just how it works.
 
Try going to a Yankee game in Yankee stadium, stand in the middle of their bleachers, and cheer for the Red Socks. You will be lucky to get out on your own power.

I think alot of this, I am sorry to say, can also be attributed to proper forum etiquette.
alexfevery;80927 said:
Many people say you MUST have protien skimming, I have found this to be not true so you can save yourself a 120 bucks...
alexfevery;80927 said:
avoiding a protein skimmer...
alexfevery;80927 said:
I would bet most(if not all) of you have never attempted keeping one in a 30 gallon. You havent tried it...
alexfevery;80927 said:
allot of the stuff that people claim is an absolute necesity is not so necesary.

In most areas you don't stand up on a soapbox and tell everyone that they are wrong, that what they are informing people on is "not true", and that "what people claim is a absolute necessity is not so".

TONMO is a great group of people trying to help others with less experience successfully select, raise and maintain cephalopods.

Some things can work for some people. We are all VERY careful to be sure to give caveats for things that have worked in the past - so not to misinform anyone. Half the information is just enough to be dangerous.

I give you points for actually coming back on and defending your stance. I thought your thread was just made to incite a riot - it was worded so.

I am not attacking you personally, I just want you to know that this type of response is very rare and must be instigated.

I would be very interested in hearing some statistical data on using seawater. I live in Florida and I never have used it in fear of the dying phytoplankton causing a spike.

I would be happy to give statistical data on using a protein skimmer -doing before and after nitrate tests and O2 levels. I would much rather supply this than state that "it may be detrimental..".

This information will be online and searchable for a long time. We all know people will say "I don't have to cycle...they said it on TONMO."
 
marinebio_guy;81014 said:
People have different skill levels a person who is just starting out should not start off with a bare bones system. However, someone with more knowledge could do it.

But the original poster is essentially saying: "Hey, all you newbies: you don't need to bother with complex filters or big tanks and you don't need to wait for your tank to cycle, either! Get a glass box--as small as is convenient--fill it with ocean water and rocks and put your animals in!"
 
Im sorry I dont have time to look thru all these posts, I never thought I would get such oposition. You are all really into sparing absolutly no expence. later this weekend i will take the time to read all this.
 
alexfevery;81020 said:
Im sorry I dont have time to look thru all these posts, I never thought I would get such oposition. You are all really into sparing absolutly no expence. later this weekend i will take the time to read all this.

No problem. I don't understand most of this last paragraph that you wrote, so any clarification would be very, very helpful.

As stated before, you will find that you think of as being "a new way to keep cephs" was attempted from the 1800's and on, until we learned how to actually correctly maintain them in captivity.

Research, such a good thing.

Greg
 
alexfevery;81020 said:
You are all really into sparing absolutly no expence.

Its not so much that we're hog-wild about spending money, just that we're adamant about making the very best homes that we can for our animals. Most of my components (overflow, biofilter, feeder tanks, skimmer manifold, spraybar, dividers, auto-topoff) are DIY. Most of the big-ticket items that aren't DIY (sump tank, return pump, skimmer, skimmer pump) were bought used for pennies on the dollar. Then again for me, tinkering and putting things together is just as enjoyable as having a cephalopod!

I like to think of it in terms of these three words:

Quality, Fast, Cheap.

Whenever you build a system you can pick any two words but you can't have all three :smile: I think we've all jumped on you because you seem to be advocating fast and cheap over quality.

Dan
 
DHyslop;81025 said:
I like to think of it in terms of these three words:

Quality, Fast, Cheap.

Whenever you build a system you can pick any two words but you can't have all three :smile: I think we've all jumped on you because you seem to be advocating fast and cheap over quality.

You could have saved NASA a lot of grief if you'd told them that in the late 80s...
 
I called in sick for work today so I can enjoy my friday playing CS and unfortunately arguing about octopuses. I feared that this would happen. Believe it or not, its not easy arguing against an entire forum. So please dont refrase what I say to make it sound ridiculos and use completely unrelated comparisons like, 100 cats in a trailler or kennel or baseball games.

Most of the stuff Im saying is actualy found in books too.
 
Alex, certainly some of the stuff you have proposed can be found in books. Mostly dating from the pre-70's, those old tomes that talked about the ridiculous need for cycling, etc.

Your ideas are nothing new, they have just been disproved over time with experience.

It is too bad that you are getting such a negative baptism here though, I am sure you are interested in cephs, their habits and habitats, which is what Tonmo is really all about. Not doing anything fast or easy, because knowledge never is.

Greg
 
Il try my best now

@ post#23 by sorseress,
I know your not calling me a liar, thats just an expression meaning that your unwilling to consider anything that could change your ways. The chances of sucesss are not slim to none either, If you follow my set up to the letter, 90% chance your octopus will die of old age happy as one has ever been. I implore you to try it before you give a survival chances.

@ post # 24 by Nancy
the tissue boxes I use are 4"x3.5"x3.5" Thats what everybody else uses right?

she almost lived to be 3 1/2, not quite, I think she was 3 months from being 3 1/2, But she did not grow anywhere near the size of Ollie. and I have heard of California 2 spots getting to 3 1/2 quite commonly but they always die soon after.

@post 25 by DHslop
If one got as big as ollie It would not be happy in a 30 gallon, but as I said the maximum I keep them in a 30 gallon for is until they no longer fit in a basic 4"x3.5"x3.5" tissue box(and no I dont try to stuff them in to see).

@ post 26 by Illithid
Ok, I am happy to discuss with you because you have actualy tried it. If the octopus was not happy in there and did pace the edges. It is because he is in a 30 tall, and its not a rectangle either, tanks other than a rectangle make octopuses feel closed in. if he was in a rectangular 30 long, I am very sure you would not have observed pacing.
 
"getting to 3 1/2 quite commonly but they always die soon after..."


Wow. Obviously, all of us who have been keeping bimacs for a number of years are totally out of some loop. ? .
 
alexfevery;80927 said:
My current octopus tank has a large hole in the back where the filter goes the octopus could easily fit thru. but he never trys to leave.

Do you have any photos of your tank setup and octo?

We have a entire section called "Tank Talk" that people like me, Dan, etc. post photos of our tank setups with explainations and details of special DIY parts.

We also have a Photo Journal section where everyone posts images of thier cephs and their hatchlings. You don't need any special reason to post your octo photos, everyone just likes to see everyone else's babies.

I would love to see yours.
 
Yes, I second Illithid in inviting you to post on Journals and Photos and add your tank to the Tank Owners' Database.

I guess I was thinking of a larger tissue box! Thanks for giving the dimensions.

One of the other people who had a large bimac at the same time I did had to look for a new home for his octopus because it was outgrowing its tank. As I mentioned, few of our members have the luxury of being near the ocean (I'd like that myself). Anyway, his LFS took it and kept it in a larger tank. The problem is that when you begin to see you'll need a bigger tank, there's not enough time to cycle a larger one.

By the way, that's Ollie at the top of the TONMO.com page, when she younger and not quite so large.

Nancy
 
post 28 by phuntoon

I dissagree, all cycling time is eliminated, but just to be sure, i always wait tilll the next day after filling. I agree my methods are definately uinorthidox. I agree about the well being of octopuses being important,

@ post 29 by DHyslop
I have never had serious algae problems in any of my tanks.

@ post 30 by marine bio guy,
no oposition here, thanks

@post 31 by cthulhu77
oh, no when the marine institute i worked at anounced that they would be getting an octopus, they had a custom made 150 gallon wide that looked like a refrigerator, and state of the art filtration skimming and i worked and entire weekend getting it ready, it was only then that we realized that even at full size, the octopus would probably rarely be seen in such a large tank. these are definately new ways of keeping octopuses. maximum care = maximum results: until a certain point which my setup defines.

more tomorow
 
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