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Removing Canister ?

dbbga

Vampyroteuthis
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Feb 27, 2003
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368
:rainbow: :rainbow: :rainbow: Thanks!!!!!! That is exactly what i was hoping for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Guess i can always use the canister on a FW tank:lol: ...................
 

Colin

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Nov 14, 2002
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Hi everyone,

I hear that cannister filters and bioballs are getting a beating :lol:

Well, for me to be devil's advocate means that I will stick up for good old fashion filtration on our cephalopod tanks and stick my neck out and say they do a fine job. But let me explain their place in all this...

We are not keeping reef tanks here. A cephalopod which is fed a healthy and varied diet is not a reef friendly animal for the average aquarium and is more than certainly classified as an ammonia machine.

They, by their very nature, produce a lot of ammonia, they eat a lot of meaty foods and they make a big mess while doing so. They also produce sucker disks by the bucketload! This is all anathema for a reef tank!

Many reef keepers these days, subscribe to such methods as Berlin, Sheng and others which rely on live rock being the only filtration in a tank with some skimmer action or sometimes without a skimmer altogether for the totally 'natural' tank. The tanks i set up last year are running on live rock only. No skimming, just live rock and hefty circulation and the odd water change. But then again, there is about 200 gallons, 150kg of rock and only about 15 fish.

The average lifespan of a reef tank is measured in years and in the long run, something which is producing a stack of nitrate is not welcome, so i wouldnt use a cannister or bioballs in a reef tank again. However, i certainly would in a large fish tank with messy predators.

The average cepahlopod tank has a lifespan measured in months and having such a large messy predator in a tank is far too much for liverock alone. In fact, I would suggest that after an octopus for example, has lived out its life in a tank, that it may even be best if the tank is stripped down and re setup before another cepahlopod is added???

If you are using bioballs the prefilter should ideally be washed on a weekly basis or at least while doing monthly water changes.

Unless you have a tank in excess of 200 gals and a stack of live rock, efficient skimming and good water movement i wouldnt stop using a cannister filter. Even it is in a mechanical fashion to physically trap and remove lrge dirt particles or in a chemical fashion as a place to house carbon or rowaphos etc.

I have ran out of time as i need to go to work this monring but any arguments or comments are welcome to help clarify all this

cheers
colin
 

Colin

TONMO Supporter
Registered
Joined
Nov 14, 2002
Messages
3,985
Hi everyone,

I hear that cannister filters and bioballs are getting a beating :lol:

Well, for me to be devil's advocate means that I will stick up for good old fashion filtration on our cephalopod tanks and stick my neck out and say they do a fine job. But let me explain their place in all this...

We are not keeping reef tanks here. A cephalopod which is fed a healthy and varied diet is not a reef friendly animal for the average aquarium and is more than certainly classified as an ammonia machine.

They, by their very nature, produce a lot of ammonia, they eat a lot of meaty foods and they make a big mess while doing so. They also produce sucker disks by the bucketload! This is all anathema for a reef tank!

Many reef keepers these days, subscribe to such methods as Berlin, Sheng and others which rely on live rock being the only filtration in a tank with some skimmer action or sometimes without a skimmer altogether for the totally 'natural' tank. The tanks i set up last year are running on live rock only. No skimming, just live rock and hefty circulation and the odd water change. But then again, there is about 200 gallons, 150kg of rock and only about 15 fish.

The average lifespan of a reef tank is measured in years and in the long run, something which is producing a stack of nitrate is not welcome, so i wouldnt use a cannister or bioballs in a reef tank again. However, i certainly would in a large fish tank with messy predators.

The average cepahlopod tank has a lifespan measured in months and having such a large messy predator in a tank is far too much for liverock alone. In fact, I would suggest that after an octopus for example, has lived out its life in a tank, that it may even be best if the tank is stripped down and re setup before another cepahlopod is added???

If you are using bioballs the prefilter should ideally be washed on a weekly basis or at least while doing monthly water changes.

Unless you have a tank in excess of 200 gals and a stack of live rock, efficient skimming and good water movement i wouldnt stop using a cannister filter. Even it is in a mechanical fashion to physically trap and remove lrge dirt particles or in a chemical fashion as a place to house carbon or rowaphos etc.

I have ran out of time as i need to go to work this monring but any arguments or comments are welcome to help clarify all this

cheers
colin
 

dbbga

Vampyroteuthis
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Feb 27, 2003
Messages
368
:bonk: Well I have sat on the fence with this decision for a long time now. The constant changing of the filter media, the nitrate problem, etc......is why I started this thread, to see who does what. I have always had a canister and have spent big $$ on them to be bigger than what i needed, to over filter. Now that I have so much LR, I did some research and found an enormous amount of info leaning on both sides. I don't think I have enough water movement in the tank, but I'm a helpless over doer:razz: Think smarter not harder. But this one is driving me crazy.... I don't want my tank to crash, what a nightmare that is. I don't want to under filter my tank, makes to much work. I get so much pleasure out of my tank, hell its like having another child to take care of, I love it. I guess I just want to do whats right for the tank and its inhabitants....man I'm confused:confused:


by the way ...I love the spell check so early in the morning:razz:
 

DHyslop

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Dec 22, 2004
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1,713
Hmm--maybe I should add a canister or a bioballs to my system.

Will bioballs be effective at all underwater, or must the water trickle?

Dan
 

Feelers

Vampyroteuthis
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Jul 10, 2005
Messages
332
Yeah Dan I was thinking the same thing, I have a normal cannister filter, ie its not a w/d.

Its a cheap chineese eheim 2028 knockoff, for about 1/8th the price. Its good for a tank up to 1200 L apparently.

jebao918S.jpg
images


Spot the difference? haha, the left one is my cheapo. US about $97.
Im real happy with it, but I was told not to use it(by reefers). I will be filling it with nylon pot scrubbers - they have more surface area than bioballs I have read, and provide easier flow, meaning they dont block as easily.

dbbga - Why dont you try slowly removing it, take some readings, then chuck it back if you were better off with it?
As long as you do it all slowly I dont think your tank would crash. Maybe you can help people like me come to a decision on whether to use it or not!!!


As a related question, what happens if you put live rock in your cannister?
 

Colin

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Nov 14, 2002
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well, i'd guess that if you put live rock in the filter it would get clogged very quickly and that would defeat the purpose of having it in there. The reason the rock needs a good flow in a tank is partly to prevent clogging and dead spots. But then, I haven't tried it... possibly these dead spots would be good for anaerobic bacteria converting nitrate to nitrogen?

My cephalopod right now is about 80 UK gals. It has about 25kg of live rock. Mechanical filtration is done by a fluval 1 internal filter. An aquamedic 1000 multi skimmer is witched on for about 2 days a week and a 10 - 15% water change monthly.
Vigorous water movement is provided by air stones.
It only houses 4 sepia bandensis.

I dont think I would try this set up with an octopus which is going to get big like a bimac, briareus or vulgaris etc.... there would be too much waste for the rock to cope with alone
 

Feelers

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Jul 10, 2005
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Colin what are your water parameters like? - at nil or are there nitrates present?

whats the maximum acceptable limit for nitrates?
 

cthulhu77

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Mar 15, 2003
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I have a different opinion of bio balls, but we've been over that one before ! (hate em)
Canisters, though, I am quite fond of...but I don't run them fulltime, either. Using them with the cleaning pads and a lot of carbon a few times a week, for a couple of hours, really removes a lot of stuff from the water, and causes no spike in nitrates.

Personally, I don't really care for Fluval's very much, and tend to gravitate towards the Rainbow/Lifeguard or Magnum can filters...much more aggressive, and meant for intermittent use.

greg
 

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