Flamboyant Cuttlefish

[Thales]

Again I'm sorry, but what is 'Herp Derp' exactly?

Nonsense words

I agree with all of you though that the care of animals such as these should be left to the well trained, dedicated, and professional aquarist.

I don't think we actually said that. I think the issue is far more complex than something so boiled down.

This is the kind of thing I like to say about keeping exotics:

Even experienced ceph keepers with mature tanks should think long and hard before obtaining this species. Their needs are resource intensive, specific, and not yet fully understood. Perhaps more importantly, the size and health of their wild populations is unknown.

Even the sharing of information, photos and video of these animals can be controversial. Some fear that detailed information and attractive photos may encourage inexperienced saltwater aquarists to obtain specimens. Personally, I believe that knowledge should be freely available, rather than hidden from view. I also believe that the admiration of a species can be of benefit to its preservation in the wild rather than its detriment. Furthermore, it is my hope that the information on the site will empower aquarists to make sound, rational decisions regarding the advisability of keeping these very difficult animals.

 

[OB]

Hear hear!

 

[skywindsurfer]

I think the issue is far more complex than something so boiled down.

In a perfect world though...

 

[Thales]

In a perfect world though...

I think the world is as perfect as we make it. I spent a lot of time crafting those two paragraphs. It would have been easier to just say - you shouldn't keep that animal, but I don't think that is particularly helpful to anyone.

 

[SabrinaR]

I think the world is as perfect as we make it. I spent a lot of time crafting those two paragraphs. It would have been easier to just say - you shouldn't keep that animal, but I don't think that is particularly helpful to anyone.

I agree. Just telling people "dont get those animals" isnt very helpful to make them understand our position here at TONMO. I know I really didnt understand at first. It took me a little while after reading more about them to understand and when it clicked it clicked. It can be difficult for people to understand why it is that they shouldnt keep these animals.... not to mention that MOST forums DO NOT have experts and phd's and advanced aquarists helping and posting information to help guide the newly obsessed. So it can also take people some time to understand that we arent just a bunch of armatures policing everybody.

 

[neurobadger]

I think there should be an emphasis on 'don't support people who are taking these animals out of the wild for commercial purposes'.

There is a difference between, for example, a lab, aquarium, or an extremely experienced cephalopod keeper who stumbles onto these animals and an inexperienced amateur who wants to keep the thing for solely ornamental purposes and not investigate what they need to take care of it.

There is a difference between taking these animals out of the wild in tiny numbers with oversight by some responsible group of people and taking these animals out of the wild in large numbers for profit.

Thales, how did you acquire the flamboyant cuttlefish you raised?

 

[Thales]

I think there should be an emphasis on 'don't support people who are taking these animals out of the wild for commercial purposes'.

Thats a tough one. The door is already open and some animals are coming through. Thankfully, through sites like TONMO, a lot of them know what is going on with real exotics and are careful. They realize that importing animals that don't make it to the end consumer makes them look bad and costs them money. There are, of course, bad ones, but they are finding it harder and harder to compete as more people start to care.

There is a difference between, for example, a lab, aquarium, or an extremely experienced cephalopod keeper who stumbles onto these animals and an inexperienced amateur who wants to keep the thing for solely ornamental purposes and not investigate what they need to take care of it.

A sad reality is that there are labs and aquariums out there that have unbelievably lacking husbandry skills. Just the way it is. Labs sometimes are interested in their research and don't have the time to fully realize good husbandry, and there are aquariums that are not funded and staffed well enough to do right. While some hobbyists have devoted much of their lives to understanding marine ornamental husbandry. A good deal of the advanced is coral husbandry for example have come from hobbyists and not research and public aquariums. At the risk of sounding like I have a giant head, we prolly wouldn't be where we are with S. bandensis if I didn't do the pushing, experimenting and research I did as a hobbyist - now there are very few imports of adult bandensis and breeding them is an every day occurance because of those efforts. And, I refuse to believe I am a singular example based on what I know of hobbyists around the US. Of course there are bad apples too - the question is how to make that balance both in the hobby and in research.

Either we go for legislation - which is poking a hornets nest because it is likely that wide ranging restrictions will come down instead of targeted restrictions because the knowledge isn't there and neither is the funding. Much easier to just cork it. Setting up some sort of oversight organization for cephs, like the old ceph cert idea, would be great, but time, money and effort would be needed long before there could be big impact.

For me that leaves sites like TONMO, articles and public talks to get information out there so people at all levels can make good decisions. Is it working? Maybe. It feels like less exotic cephs are coming in, and it feels like its because people at all levels have a better understanding of what these animals need. I could be wrong though as we don't even have reliable numbers of what animals are coming into the US yearly.

There is a difference between taking these animals out of the wild in tiny numbers with oversight by some responsible group of people and taking these animals out of the wild in large numbers for profit.

Is so hard to tell who is responsible or not. I also don't think the numbers are all that high. Of the 20 or so that I know about that came through last year, I got 14 and the losses in the first few days were staggering. I just don't think that most importers want to deal with these guys because they are expensive and every one they lose costs them money they don't have. Again I could be wrong, there could be lots coming in, but I haven't seen them and I look a lot.

Thales, how did you acquire the flamboyant cuttlefish you raised?

Through what I consider a responsible importer that I have been working with for several years trying to source these animals. Though, in March I hope to try to collect my own during a work collecting trip to PI.

This is a complicated issue, so please if anything is unclear, lets keep discussing it.