Ethical Considerations for Keeping Octopus in Captivity

cthulhu77

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"In your experience, why did people stop buying the boas? Was it because the market was flooded, because people wanted to protect the wild populations, or for some other reason or reasons?"

Animals are only sold when they bring a profit to the importer/wholesaler.

In the case of the Hogg Isle boas, the market was flooded quickly, and the wild population decimated. Protecting the wild populations would mean just that Protecting The Wild Populations...this can not be done by captive breeding. It needs to be done at the field level, unfortunately, too late for those pretty little snakes.
I would like to see it not happen to the octopus species.
 


Thales

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cthulhu77;88555 said:
"In your experience, why did people stop buying the boas? Was it because the market was flooded, because people wanted to protect the wild populations, or for some other reason or reasons?"

Animals are only sold when they bring a profit to the importer/wholesaler.

In the case of the Hogg Isle boas, the market was flooded quickly, and the wild population decimated. Protecting the wild populations would mean just that Protecting The Wild Populations...this can not be done by captive breeding. It needs to be done at the field level, unfortunately, too late for those pretty little snakes.
I would like to see it not happen to the octopus species.


Thanks Greg.
I thought you making a connection of the end of collection of the Hog Isle Boa with boycotting a 'zebras' to end their collection collection, but since the boas dropped in price because of market saturation, it looks like I misunderstood.

The boas and the Galaxy rasbora are examples of what might/prolly will happen with the 'zebras'. I agree, and am saddened by the prospect. International action is needed on a level that overwhelms my mind. Its taken 20-30 years to start to see a positive trend away from collection of fish with cyanide, so I am not sure what to do here. Perhaps raising money to fund field research would be a good place to start.
 

cthulhu77

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That, Sir, is a great idea. I wonder if we could do a fund drive here on Tonmo for some field research? It would be great to meld the keeping of cephs in captivity and the exploration of the wild 'pods into one whole ball of wax.

Besides, I would like to see a photo of you with a zebra octopus on your head. :smile:
 


monty

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robyn;88490 said:
There is an emerging branch of mathematical ecology attempting to answer exactly these sorts of questions. From memory I think its called elasticity analyses.

I'd be quite interested in references and recommendations for particular papers... I'm hoping to get some time to do a google scholar search for this stuff, but if you have some specific recommendations, that's also good, particularly if you know some that are good for a "well-read intellectual, but ignorant computer scientists who hasn't taken too much hardcore biology and had to pick up a lot of terminology on the street" level reader like myself.

This also seems like the sort of thing that Fugisawas Sake would like, but he hasn't been around much lately.

I should also clarify a bit: I didn't in any way mean to criticize the conclusion that "zebras" shouldn't be collected and imported, certainly not in the overzealous, irresponsible, and unregulated (and greed-driven) manner that people are describing. I just am wary of over-extrapolating the details, but it's pretty damn clear that the current practices are unethical, unacceptable, and unreasonable.

My only intended point is that collecting endangered animals is not a "one-size fits all" problem, and it's the sort of thing where frequently there is a great deal of complexity, so to try to address it sometimes requires a lot of open-minded-cynicism, so to speak. But it's clear that the "zebras" were doing a lot better before a bunch of jerks started to spray cyanide at them to make a quick fortune selling them to rich idiots in American LFS stores, so stopping that seems like a great idea. My comments are mostly in the theoretical domain of "will they bounce back" and "in what ways is this similar to or different from other examples." I understand that Greg sees a lot of similarities between them and other "exotic pet" animals, and certainly in terms of the "human side" of the behavioral and economic examples, I agree, but in terms of reproduction, ecology, and whatnot, I think it's intellectual thin ice to say that a ceph that probably breeds a large brood about once a year is going to respond to pressures in a way similar to boas or tasmanian tigers. However, there's no doubt that if these collectors remove a large fraction of the wild population, it will be an unacceptably horrible thing for the population, so it's the details, not the big picture, that I'm wanting to get into.
 

Jean

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Interestingly the sale of cephs is not common in NZ. I can honestly say I have never seen one for sale in any pet store (or aquarium store) I have been in. I confess I actively discourage visitors to the aquarium who ask about keeping them, this is mainly because they would have to catch their own and it is difficult to distiguish between midgets which could conceivably be kept in a home aquarium and a juvenile common (which gets HUGE). Our aim as a public aquarium is to enthuse people about the marine environment and it's inhabitants (in situ!) and to raise their awareness about some of the issues surrounding it......this is why we hold marine animals (and go through an extremely painful ethics approval process every year :roll: ). We do of course provide information and help to home aquarists if they call with a problem and we take in and nurse (or euthanise :cry:) marine animals brought in by the public (we are a bird rescue centre in the event of oil spill). We also run aquarium technology classes.

BTW don't get me started on orange roughy..........if ever there was a fish not suited to commercial exploitation thats it!!!!

J
 

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