Ethical Considerations for Keeping Octopus in Captivity

[Colin]

As far as galaxies go - they turned out to be possibly the easiest fish i have ever bred so the future is bound to be okay for them. it wont be long before the commercial fish breeders are chucking them out by the thousand.

Only one drawback is that when they spawn they only produce about 3 or 4 eggs per day rather than a huge lump of eggs in one spawning so breeding them is a bit time consuming.

To date I have reared about 200 of them and keeping passing them to other fishkeepers.

Good luck with the bangaii, shame they are in trouble!

Shipposhack said, 'I've thought about buying one before, and now I'm even more inclined to get one because they may be harder to get soon.'

NO, that would be the wrong thing to do, dont buy one, set up a tank for a group and breed them!!!

 

[Thales]

And only buy CB bangaiis to start your breeding group!

 

[jhemdal]

Thales,

Just as important, buy captive born from different dealers or on different dates or you will end up pairing off siblings - not so good.

Jay

 

[Thales]

Thales,

Just as important, buy captive born from different dealers or on different dates or you will end up pairing off siblings - not so good.

Jay

You betcha!

 

[Animal Mother]

You betcha!

That brings up something else I was thinking about.

As far as cephalopods go, it seems a few of the captive bred specimens around here are first and/or second generation incest babies... maybe I'm wrong on that though. Doesn't the fact that keeping a pair in a tank put a severe damper on captive breeding attempts for octos and cuttles? Kind of a rhetorical question, but being the ideal situation (making captive bred specimens available) and at the same time least ideal situation (placing two octos together to broaden the gene pool) makes sustainable captive breeding seem almost impossible to me, at least as far as octopus goes.

Discuss.

 

[DWhatley]

AM,
I have been having the similar thoughts. If my sibblings breed, I think I would like to try to raise Mercs (Neal has some concerns about the cost of such a venture ). Since it seems that to raise two together, they need to be born very close together, my first thought is to try to obtain a wild caught brooding adult and mix the WC young with my CB young. I am still in the thinking stages and I want to see how my little group survives and if they breed at all. So far I have had no octocides but they are beginning to mature and that may change. I may decide it is too much work and too expensive but I keep toying with the idea.

 

[cthulhu77]

Well, what you end up with by captive breeding are "crossed" lines...I am sure someone will produce an albino octopus soon, and they will be all the rage for any saltwater crank.
Those keepers who actually care about the end goal of keeping cephalopods in captivity will work to make sure that they gene pool they work with is not influenced by trade dollars...there are several members of Tonmo who fall into that category...unfortunately, the bulk of people who keep animals as "pets" aren't so responsible, hence my disgust with the pet trade.

I don't think I agree with taking animals that are protected/endangered out of the wild to "save them" is a valid point.

 

[cthulhu77]

Having once again come under some friendly fire regarding my position on keeping cephalopods in captivity, I would like to make one huge point:

The captive care of cephalopod species that have proven large wild populations that suffer no damage due to collection for the pet trade, such as bimacs, is definitely of interest to us all.

Some people keep animals that have no proven stable wild population, and I violently disagree with keeping these animals.

We have seen a number of new threads here on Tonmo in reference to the captive keeping of animals, which is fine. There are several members who know as much as anyone in the world about keeping cephs in a tank.

 

[13engrsapper]

mimics etc

For the animals with unproven populations we need to find a way to get them listed as a CITES animal... and high enough on the list ASAP. That is one way to put a damper on the trade of an animal that may be endangered.

 

[cthulhu77]

In this day and age of political intrigue, the chances of doing much with CITES are spare, at best. I would love to see some sweeping changes in the animal trade, but I understand the economic problems also. I am regularily offered large amounts of money to obtain animals, and being out of work, it is tough to say no. I am lucky enough that I have financial resources to back me up, but I do feel bad for the people stuck on the end of collection being their only means of making a living.

I do love animals, but people have to factor in also. It certainly is a huge problem.

 

[DWhatley]

Greg,
Did you give up on internet journalism?

 

[gjbarord]

As an aside,

I read a report on elasmobranchs in the Mediterranean a few months ago. Many of the sharks not listed as threatened or endangered still had very low numbers. The irony of the paper was that it appeared those sharks had been so heavily over-fished that there was not enough data to collect on the sharks in order to have them listed as threatened or endangered so their protection is still in limbo.

Yes, people have to eat and those people who collect animals and sell them to importers do make a living, but there are alternatives. I believe it is Project Piaba that is doing a great job of both sustainable fishing practices while also keeping the native collectors with food in their mouths. It can be a difficult balancing act.

I do not believe that any animals, land or marine, should be taken from their habitat without prior knowledge of population numbers; if prior knowledge exists, and if the animal is indeed endangered (threatened), procedures must be set in place for these animals such as captive breeding. The Lake Victoria cichlid is a good example of this considering some of the species that exist in captivity no longer exist in the wild and captive breeding is happening in aquaria. While nautiluses are common in aquaria there are no firm numbers of population size, but there are reports of fishing declines in certain areas. That being said, it is sometimes unsettling to have that type of animal in captivity, especially since we really do not know anything about its natural habitat and behavior. Of course I will volunteer to go to Palau and research population sizes in the horrible conditions that is the western Pacific

Greg

 

[cthulhu77]

Greg,
Did you give up on internet journalism?

No, not at all. I just have not been too sessile lately, what with the f'd up spine. I can sit for about five minutes at a time now, so I should be back up and spouting soon.

 

[Spence24]

Of course I will volunteer to go to Palau and research population sizes in the horrible conditions that is the western Pacific

haha...ya I bet you would, in fact lets make it a site field trip???

 

[bali_boy]

haha...ya I bet you would, in fact lets make it a site field trip???

hehe, i lived in Palau for a while, the only way you'll see a nautilus is to pay a diveshop to trap one in the depths and lift it up. Although, later that day you might see some very confused dying ones floating around on the surface.

Tourist $$ rule!

I cant believe that there is such demand for mimic/wonderpus in the states. I'd like to write something on this subject. Anyone have any contacts in Indo for the collectors?

Thanks.