Nancy said:
I don't think you should consider this an opportunity, but rather a rescue. Then make the best of it.

I agree, but it is an opportunity of sorts, he has made sure that this animal isnt to be aquired by the lfs again, and he is also lucky enough to get a mimic octopus without crossing the moral boundaries we enforce and follow on tonmo. :biggrin2:

Personally I would love a mimic!! - but only a morally aquired one :smile:

Im very interested in how it will work out, why do they have such a short lifespan in captivity?
Perhaps mimics need the sort of strong currents, desert-like conditions, and high sunlight of their native submarine turf. Also, they are probably evolved to enjoy the specific burrow-dwelling fauna from their area, so my guess would be that professional aquarium attempts to raise them would need to include these animals in addition to replicating the undersea climate they hail from. Granted, that's a complete layman's guess, but it would make some sense.

This should be looked at as a rescue, and should be carried out. Provide that octopus with the best care it can receive. You don't want the LFS to sell this animal to just anybody, and you seem to respect these animals.
Ive done a wee bit of research on the net, and found that the probable cause of many mimics quick death - is the technique to capture them. Cyanide is used to flush the octopus from its' den, and apparently the health affects only become apparent further down the line.

Perhaps the shock of moving to a new tank coupled with the cyanide poisoning is why many die within days.

The mimic tank doesn't require any rocks (well for filtration it does obviously), and an 8-10 inch deep sand bed is the "reccommended" minimum.

Temperature should be constant and water quality should remain high.
Dont change salt brands as some brands may kill them.
Subdued lighting is reccommended.

Apparently they like to swim around alot and may get frustrated and ink if they crash into the glass too much.

Colour changing is only to completly black, and this is only while angry or frustrated.

They may (but are unlikely to) have toxic venom, no-one really knows as a bite hasnt been properly documented - from what I could find.
The reason they are unlikely to be poisonous is assumed from comparison of other mimicing organisms, but is still just an educated geuss.

Thats the info I could find on short notice :biggrin2: , some animals have been given to the NRCC, and still died within days.

Oh, and lastly no mimicry has been reported outside of their natural environments - and apparently they make dull pets.

O'O, I know I told you this in my pm, just thought everyone might be interested.
This is not a rescue!

The rationalization that this is a rescue is exactly the logic (illogic) that keeps Wunderpus and Thaumoctopus in the pipeline. It is easy to say that the damage is already done and what will it hurt if I buy the animal and enjoy it or that it's life will be "better" in my tank than in the LFS owners or someone elses. Nonsense! This animal has been taken out of its habitat and will never reproduce. While we don't know how many of them there are in the wild, it is probably not a common, abundant species and even moderate collection pressure could be damaging.

The only way, short of restricting their importation, that the capture of mimics and zebras is going to be deterred is if there are consequences for wholesalers and retailers who traffic in them. If you pay the shop owner even what he paid for the animal, there is no disincentive for him not to do it again, and even worse, for the importer and wholesaler not to continue to pay collecters and shippers in Indonesia to provide these animals. The best way to dampen the trade in these beasts is to let these "mistakes" die unsold in the shippers or shop owners tanks. It is a sorry fact that financial loss is probably the only short-term message that will work.

I know that this seems harsh, but I have been watching these animals being imported for several years and the fact is that there are many more coming into the trade now than ever before. There are too many stories on this and other sites about shop owners selling mimics for a 1000% profit (a $50 animal sold for $500) and there are too many examples of people deluding themselves into buying a mimic with the rationalization that it is already in the shop - I can give it a better life - so what will it hurt. I'm not an expert on the psychology of mimics, so I really don't know if it is a better life to live for six weeks in a home aquarium (probably with the wrong substrate), or die in six days in the shop owne's display aquarium. I do hope that it will be better for the survivial of the species if collectors, importers, wholesalers and retailers can't sell them and are forced to take a loss.

Obviously the best solution to this problem is to get all "zebras" (since most people can't tell the difference) onto a protected list, but given that this probably won't happen anytime soon, don't buy them - even if it is to offer them a "better life".

Sorry to be so blunt about this, but the past few years I've been writing posts about this and the problem is worse, not better. Frustration is setting in.

You're talking into the wind...these people who import animals could care less about the welfare of the captives, or their wild cousins.
I get so pissed I have to not check in now and again, because things like this keep popping up.

Agreed...frustrating beyond belief.
Well said Roy,

hand on heart I'd leave it in the shop. I have been offered wunderpus several times in the last year. All I do is remind them that they are delicate short-lived animals that are potentially very rare.
Conservation is easy
Dont buy anythning that isnt raised on a "Farm"
no out of the wild animals
I buy from Octopets because thats the only place i can confirm that breeds these cretures for the express purpose of pets.
get a wonderpus breeding farm and ill probably shell out another 1200$+ to get teh right equipment and another 200 for the animal it self
until then ferget it
Yes, it would be better to just leave the octo in the shop, as painful as it would be personally. Only if the owner takes a financial hit on the octo, even if delivered by mistake, will he make sure that he never gets another one.

So do you think if the owner simply gives it away, taking the financial loss, it would be wrong to take it? Would we be promoting the trade in these species?

Why would the supplier send this particular species to someone who had ordered a "brown octopus"? Maybe if dealers started identifying species and sold by species name, things would improve as well.

Captive bred is the way to go and I'm hoping other species will eventually be available, like briareus.

Giving it away is an option, but only if the recipient understands that if she/he makes it public that they are keeping the animal, it will only fuel the desire of some other aquarists to acquire one. I think it better to lead by example and just say "No!".

I do want to say one more thing on this issue so as not to appear hypocritical. I do occasionally acquire and keep rare octopus and stomatopods for study and to provide museum specimens. Some times these come from commercial sources. It is a difficult decision whether taking such an animal for the scientific information that might be gained out weighs the potential harm that encouraging collectors might cause. I don't make such decisions lightly and I do everything possible to ensure that the supplier understands why these animals should not be collected and sold.

Well for my two cents the LFS guy seems pretty good. He has stated that he wont be getting in any more "Zebras" and it doesnt sound like he wanted it in the first place.

Its all very well to say dont buy them - (which is a good idea). However in this case O'O was rung by the LFS guy who clearly didnt want anything to do with this species.
He could have sold it for $300 or more, but instead asked O'O for help, at a loss to his own pocket.
I dont think this is a typical transaction, and one that (based on what he's said) isnt going to happen again.

From what O'O's said about his track record on keeping nautalis this is the type of LFS person that the world needs more of.

I think the best way to protect this species is to breed them too. Aquacultured octos are far more appealing to everyone, and would probably be the most effective way to stop mimic importing.
There is no question that we would like to see mimics cultured, but they are a small egg species that probably are not likely to be bred any time soon. I know of only one female that has even laid eggs in captivity.

yeah i totally agree with these posts! and he offered it to me at no cost so i took it because many of customers where wanting to get there hands on it once they saw it and he passed on the info i gave to him to them and he agrees with me so he found that it may have a better home with me for the little remainder of its life but it really does not matter right if its going to die do you think the octo really cares what kind of home hes in no! but it would make a better shot on keeping it around longer even if its a few minuites well this probablly don't make any sence but i see it in a way, and its wrong but what would be better then some random joe that comes in and wants it for all i kno he will stick in a freshwater tank who knows? or put it in a tank that might be pushing the limits but possibly similar i have read many of posts and i know the needs to actually have the thing end up with a chance of survival and i have done what i could to adjust my tank from what i read wether it works or not its all worth a try! and you all know how the public is, they are compulsive buyers and they dont care about anything but apperance so no matter what it is if it looks neat they are willing to pay top dollar for it! so really the only reason i took it is cause i thought it might have a better chance! and i know you guys are probablly fired up but i have said this many of times nothings immpossible! well sorry if this made some anger but i just did to my knolage what i thought was rite!
Well, from what O'O has told me, The lfs guy was offered $400 by a random, and he refused and explained that these animals shouldnt be traded.
Then he GAVE the mimic to O'O!!!

I personally think that the LFS guy is a legend. Definately the best outcome from an unfortunate situation. :biggrin2:

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