Need some questions answered about my O. chierchiae (originally mercatoris)

[fishkid6692]

are they easier to get than o. chierchiae though?

 

[Jon Crossan]

Hey guys just checking up on everything. Last night I put a fiddler crab in a clear plastic cup with a top and holes throughout the cup (this was the cup that charley was sent in that he escaped from in his bag). I put it in front of his hole to see if he would try and get inside the cup to eat the crab. At first he started feeling the cup and getting brighter in coloration but then seemed uninterested and just pushed the cup out of his way. Then I took the crab out of its cup and let it loose in front of his hole. He then grabbed at the crab but was discouraged when the crab pinched at him (it was a female so no damage done). But later that night when I had the red lights on he came out of his hole and began to move around. I kept watching him and he crawled in front of a hole that was inhabited by the other crab that had been in the tank for awhile. As soon as he passed the hole the crab shot out and attacked him. Charley then jetted away quickly to the top corner of the tank and stayed there for awhile. He then slowly started to move around the tank as if he was stalking the crab. At one point he disappeared from my sight behind a rock and then jetted over the rock very quickly and landed in front of my face (made me jump haha). He then creeped very close to the crab but never attacked. I'm starting to worry that he isn't eating. I've tried feeding him with freezedried shrimp by feeder stick but he never eats them. He definitely knows there are crabs in the tank though. Also I'm still not sure about this, but there are what seems to be tiny clam shells in holes of the live rock I have that never got cured and basicly got put in my tank straight out of the ocean to jumpstart my cycle when I first got my tank. I'm thinking he's maybe snacking on those because it seems like there are more and more empty little shells around the tank. He also seems to be responding to my presence more. Whenever I approach the tank he will wave a tentacle from wherever he is and then if I get down close to the tank he'll come out a little and wave usually 2 tentacles at me. He never comes all the way out though but I think hes getting used to me. If anybody has any questions for me just let me know.

 

[Jean]

Hi Jon,

Charley could be eating the little clams, many octopus learn how to drill through the shell, the other thing s/he could be eating is any amphipods etc that were on the rock when you put them in the tank. Doesn't sound like s/he is starving!

J

 

[Jon Crossan]

yeah there was an empty hermit crab shell in the tank that one day was intact and then the next day there was a hole in the top of it like somthing had drilled through it. I think charley was checking to see if anybody was home

also I find these guys every now and then

I dont know if he would be eating them or not.

 

[gholland]

also I find these guys every now and then
I dont know if he would be eating them or not.

Very, very likely.

 

[Jon Crossan]

Well thats good. They aren't ever out in the open but whenever I lift up rocks and stuff they seem to be hiding under them. I've never seen him eat one but I hope he is.

 

[Nancy]

Charley may prefer smaller food such as amphipods and small clams, and they seem to be available in your tank. It's more effort to attack a fiddler crab.

Nancy

 

[Colin]

I would think that the amphipods are making up the bulk of its diet just now, most captive octopuses seem to prefer eating them to most other things except maybe crabs.

any more pics Jon?

 

[Neogonodactylus]

Need for preservation

Jon,

I sent you a pm about how useful it would be to preserve tissue from this animal for genetic analysis, but I'm not sure if you received it. From a scientific perspective,
a top priority right now is to figure out how O. chierchiae is related to other Octopus species. Given its unusual reproductive pattern, I can't even guess who are its closest relatives. The only way we are going to be able to do this is through molecular analysis and unfortunately, existing specimens are generally not properly preserved to allow us to look at their DNA. It is best if we have live tissue placed immediately into 95% Ethyl Alcohal. Even if the animal has been dead for only a few hours, the tissue is generally not usable for DNA extraction and analysis. I certainly would not ask you to give up your friend, but it would be a great help if you could preserve him/her just as it dies. If I sent you some vials with the proper alcohol, would you be willing to watch for the end and when the animal is approaching death, snip off the tip of an arm and put it in a vial and place the corpse in another bottle and ship them back to me for phylogenetic analysis? We take an arm tip and separate it from the rest of the body so that digestive enzymes, etc. don't decompose the DNA. The rest of the body goes into a museum collection where it provides the morphological check on the identification.

What you have found is valuable to science and hopefully ca be preserved and studied. At the same time, I fully understand that the animal is valuable to you as a companion. I have an unusual stomatopod that I got two years ago. It is a new species and genus and should be preserved and placed in a museum collection, but I can't bring myself to preserve it until it dies naturally. (I have taken a leg for DNA which has regenerated.)

Anyway, sorry to come on like an ambulance chaser, but the though of losing another chance to understand this unique species bothers me.

Roy

 

[Jon Crossan]

Yes I got your message roy. I sent you an email back, you can reply through email or on here but I check this site more often than my email. Also I will be trying to get some new pictures soon I just have to get a hold of my sister to come take some more.

 

[monty]

Thanks for being open to Roy's request, Jon. The importance of preserving the genetic legacy of this species is quite important, not only because there's a great deal of evidence that it's disappearing from the wild, but also, as Roy says, because it has very unusual reproductive behavior for a modern octopus, so it is a uniquely valuable species to study to understand how octopuses are related. Of course, Charley is also your pet, and I'm sure I speak for everyone here when I say that we will do everything we can to help you give Charley a good home, and that we look forward to more pictures and stories!

I'm hoping that with your help, we can make a real effort to make sure that cephalopods are understood and protected for future generations.

 

[Animal Mother]

Wow! What an honor for both you and your octopus, Jon.

 

[Neogonodactylus]

How to preserve

Jon,

Basically the animal needs to go into 95 or 100% ETOH as close to being alive as possible. As I said, the ideal preservation is an arm tip ( 1/4) placed in a small vial of alcohol with the rest of the animal preserved in a larger vial of ETOH. One additional point. When an animal is still alive and placed in alcohol, the arms contort and twist. This makes it very difficult to make appropriate measurements. The techniques that works to straighten the animal is to place it in some ETOH and when it quits moving, massage and straighten the arms so that it looks like a squid. Then place it back into the ETOH and repeat. After about 3 repetitions, the arms will remain straight and the animal can be placed into a vial and capped. It is a lot of work, but with luck someone could be measuring it a hundred years from now.

I really appreciate your interest in providing as much information from this specimen as possible.

Roy

 

[DWhatley]

Roy,
As a hopeful secondary thought, if Charlie is Charlene and has eggs, would an unhatched egg give as much info for DNA?

 

[Colin]

D, if he is a she then that would certainly change things... The baby octopuses would end up with a few dozen 'cyber-parents' fussing over them!!!

I think that would probably be the ideal scenario but there are a few TONMO.com members who have donated rare octopuses to science in the past, especially with wunderpus I think?

One thing that I always keep emphasising - This interest and hobby that we have is still in its infancy and there is still so much to learn about octopuses. We should work hand in hand with cephalopod scientists and conservationists to increase our knowledge. Many hobbyists in the aquatic fields have been involved with major breakthroughs over the years.