Nautilus in my tank

[jsshark1]

every once and a wile a LFS I go to gets Nautilus every blue moon. always liked them, well I passed by around three weeks ago and he had one in his tank. yes in warm water and under a very bright light. with my pet GPO passing i have a cold water with nothing in it ..... the small one did fine for a week eating silversides and prongs with shells still on...i asked the LFS if he can get me another one as I read they do better in groups and to every ones surprise the size of the second one was huge , they mention how they never got one that big. it has been a week I have had both in a 120 gal hex tank ...with no light and the rear half covers for all time low light . the light seem to be ok because they hang on both sides.

I read lots of posts, seems like they are going to work out...
i have the tank at, 68Deg ( i have read keepers having them for a long time from 58 to 69 Deg) salinity 1.023,

my plan is to get around 3 or 4 more if i can find them and have them in my 720 gal tank. then they will have all the depth to be happy.

that is where my first question starts.
they both seem to only stay at the top , never breaks off the surface. i have read they stay most of the time at the top but mine never breaking from the surface and i seen vidios of them searching for food at the bottom so never breaking the top cant be right . i would think lower salinity would make it easier for them to go down.

I do understand not very many people know much about Nautilus but any help will be welcomed

 

[Tentacle Toast]

I can't offer any tips or suggestions, but I CAN compliment you on your awesome nautilus'! I'm sure you'll find at least some of the answers you're looking for here, likewise I hope that you'll continue to keep us posted (with pictures) of your experiences...good luck!

 

[CaptFish]

I have never seen them recommend for a home aquarium for a number of reasons like these past threads point out:

From Robyn
Welcome to Tonmo. I am a scientist in the US who has worked with captive nautiluses in a research facility for about four years. Generally we discourage people from keeping nautiluses as pets because they are difficult to keep healthy in captivity, and because we don't know enough about the health of their wild populations to be confident that a pet trade is supportable.

A chiller is essential - even though they are from the tropical ocean, they live in deep water that remains cold. A temperature of about 15-18 degrees celcius is necessary, anything above about 23 degrees will be fatal. So if you are keeping it in an outside tank you must have a chiller. The size of the chiller you need will depend on the size of the tank. For one nautilus, no smaller than 150 gallons, and a vertical tank is better than horizontal. If you want to keep more than one, you should expect to have a tank of about 200 gallons. People keep them in smaller, but since they routinely swim hundreds of meters up and down every day, bigger is better.

It sounds from your posts that you have not had a saltwater tank before - (apologies if I have read that wrongly). I definitely don't recommend nautilus for a first-time keeper, they are very sensitive to water quality and can become ill without showing many effects. An experienced keeper would be more likely to know if there is something subtle that is wrong.

You definitely need to keep them in a tank on their own - whoever kept them with trigger fish condemned their animals to a certain death. Trigger fish are a main predator of nautilus and will kill each and every one in the tank.

My overall advice is, get something else. Nautiluses are beautiful, yes, but they are also quite boring aquarium animals as they are sedentary 90 % of the time. They need to be kept in the dark, so they don't go blind (this happens a lot with animals from pet stores), they need very good water quality and constant monitoring. If you are just starting with reef tanks, I would recommend something more interactive and enjoyable to start with.

Hope this helps!

Robyn.

From staff member Thales
We have 10 on display, regularly laying eggs, at the Steinhart Aquarium. They are incredibly boring 'pets' as they are only really active for about a minute when you feed.
Waikiki, Georgia, NYA, Seattle, and more PA's have them on show.
If a public aquarium wants one, they know where and how to get them. PA's try to avoid them in the hobby trade because every purchase adds to the probable continued collection and it really seems that wild populations are in trouble (if one sells, so will another). For every one collected there are a bunch of dead ones and most that come into the trade end up in tanks that are not appropriate for them. And, if they have been in the chain of custody for a while, they are probably going down already.

Another From Robyn...
Hi - do you have a nautilus already? They are usually uncommon in the petstore trade, and for good reason - their population health is heavily pressured by shell collecting. Generally we discourage their presence in the pet trade. Or are you at an aquarium or other institution? Since I'm not sure I'll give you some general info about how I kept them (at a research institution), with the caveat that if you've just seen one in a fish store and you're thinking about it, please consider not purchasing it. Many animals in retail stores are moribund from poor handling and incorrect shipping temps, and will die within a few days. A waste of your money, and since it sold, an incentive for the store to get another one in stock. With that said:

Anyway - I kept mine at a constant 17 C; 55 F is about 12.5 C, which is pretty cold. Nautiluses can certainly withstand cold temps, and certainly much moreso than warm temps (above about ~22-24 is usually lethal). At that temperature though you will most likely see pretty minimal activity. Feeding once per week or less is probably fine. I don't have experience maintaining them that cold, so maybe someone else can help you more.

From staff member OB
This may sound a bit direct and perchance fairly hard-edge for a first response, but, please, enlighten me; why are you considering a creature which has ornamental value, as a pet, at best, and at the same time is notoriously difficult to keep, disease prone and of fragile natural stock? I am genuinely interested in your motivations, most certainly not intending to get your goat.

In any case, some of us (notably Robyn) have been keeping Nautilus for research purposes, so I am sure that these'll chime in with regards to tank requirements, appropriately.

The main gripe, besides dwindling stocks, is that Nautilus in captivity generally will develop buoyancy issues and end up either at the top or bottom of your well laid out set-up, not interacting all that much with their keeper. You can only spend your money once; I would really like you to enjoy the hobby, not feel disappointed at some stage. Have you considered Octopus or Cuttle in the process?

Cheers.

 

[DWhatley]

Nauts are a touchy subject but you have the facility for them and I am most interested in how they will do. Sadly, most don't live long in captivity but on a rare occasion some have survived in public aquariums for several years and have even mated (or eat least laid eggs). Eggs take a long time to hatch and I don't believe any have survived to adults. There is a known problem with buoyancy in captivity but it is not well understood. Both Robyn and Greg have done work with them and hopefully they will give some recommendations.

 

[jsshark1]

thank for the feedback,
yes I read some of those posts, with pos and neg of having a Nautilus,

I would not go out and get one out of the wild but I am hoping I would be consider as saving the ones I have and giving them the best chance to being happy then some one having them cook in some kids tank. ( with that said )

I really like them, not boring at all as I keep reading, . I put my face infront of the tank and they both like fish swim towards me and get all excited. so I don't understand when I read they cant see very well ....

 

[Jean]

Possibly they are responding to movement and perhaps shadows! many predators (even those with comparatively poor eyesight) have motion triggered responses!

 

[Tentacle Toast]

...it's always a tough call with seeing these types of creatures in a pet shop; shouldn't be there for many reasons, & most anyone else who picks them up would probably supply them with a tortured death. Buy them, & give the shop keepers incentive to order more, who in turn provide collectors/poachers/etc to continue to decimate wild populations. In my experience, having a solid background in herpetology, the deaths that arise from unsold animals - even high-dollar ones - don't teach a lesson of "better not do that again", but (if the death is even noticed) "better do it different next time". If the animal is an oddity that no-one else has, it'll just be written off because someone WILL eventually buy it...at a hearty profit. Unfortunately for the animals, it's almost always a lose-lose. The silver lining to this dark cloud, is sometimes you'll end up with a diligent buyer that really pours his or her all into it, & comes out with a breakthrough or two that completely revolutionizes husbandry practices for the species in question. You've got a couple beautiful animals, & there's no returning them now;keep precise notes, employ your best practices, & document, document, document. Post here often, & ask lots of questions. Your animals are awesome...good luck to you!

 

[jsshark1]

today I decided to put some live grass shrimp in the tank and I can really see the trouble they are having leaving the surface, I see the large one pulling him self down the side of the tank about a one inch and then lets go and shoots up to the surface.

today I am preparing the 720 to be a saltwater Nautilus tank. I am glad to have them in the 120 gal tank before the 720, much easier learning how to care and feed them in a smaller space.

 

[robyn]

that is where my first question starts.
they both seem to only stay at the top , never breaks off the surface. i have read they stay most of the time at the top but mine never breaking from the surface and i seen vidios of them searching for food at the bottom so never breaking the top cant be right . i would think lower salinity would make it easier for them to go down.

I do understand not very many people know much about Nautilus but any help will be welcomed

Hi - I see you have some of my previous opinions on keeping nautiluses already...

About the buoyancy issues - this is common with animals that are wild caught without careful handling. Most likely the tube that runs through the chambers that helps regulate the liquid volume in the chambers (the siphuncle) has been damaged by rapid decompression. Some animals recover normal buoyancy regulation over a period of weeks or months, and some never do. Make sure you are feeding them with food that they can get to - pieces of fish on the bottom of the tank, or live prey like grass shrimp won't be any good. It's possible that being deep-water animals, being surface trapped is stressful (I have used shallow-water volume as an aversive training stimulus, so they will work to avoid it). So you should make their lives as calm as possible until (which might be never) they can descend properly. Keep them dark and cold, and make sure your outflow and inflow are fairly gentle - they can get bashed about and trapped by strong currents.

You can try to check if they have external gas trapped in the mantle cavity or in a ruptured first chamber - take the animal by the shell and slowly turn them sideways until the side of the shell opening is uppermost - watch for gas bubbles coming up. Return them to upright and do the alternate side, then back again, then finally turn them slowly fully upside down. After that leave them alone and see what happens. This won't help at all if the siphuncle is ruptured, but if it's just gas around the soft tissue it can help.


I would strongly recommend only maintaining the two you have rather than getting more - your tank is plenty large enough for 6 nautiluses, but the ethics of buying animals from the pet trade is dubious. For the 6 live animals you get, I will bet 10 times that many die in shipping and inappropriate holding tanks. Don't support the market for them by giving retail stores your money for them. They stock what sells, and I know it's very hard to resist buying an animal that you know would die in inexperienced hands, but it's better in the long run for the store to lose their money than for them to know they can move units in stock.

Can you get the tank any colder? 68 is 20C, I think 17-18 would be better.

 

[jsshark1]

thanks for the info Robyn,

I do feed them by hand since I got them with no problem, ( shrimp with shell and silver sides ) the large one wants to eat a couple of time a day . I only started today with the grass shrimp to see if they would go to the bottom for them ..

I have done what you asked to help them with buoyancy and did not see any air escape.. i would hate to put them in the 720 and them not leave the surface.

the LFS always like to have one when he can get them. likes to show they gets odd things and I pass by every fish delivery day, it has been a long time since I seen them have them.

yes I can lower the temp in the 120gal tank but it will mite be a diffident thing with the 720 gal tank I only have to 1/2 hrs chillers...

 

[robyn]

It sounds like you have a more-than-transient buoyancy issue, in which case it's hard to say if they will recover. Even if they don't though, I have kept floaters and sinkers without any other apparent issues for many months to years, so if they are otherwise healthy ad eating, the floating issue need not be a big deal for care and welfare. Obviously normal bouyancy is best, but there's little you can do to affect it at this point.

Keep feeding them by hand as long as they are floating though. You will go through a lot more food at warmer temps, so that's another good reason to lower it if possible. One large shrimp 4-5 times a week should be enough - I think hungry is better than overfed for cephs.

If you can't get the temp much lower than 20 in your larger tank you may want to reconsider moving them. Colder water in a smaller tank would be my recommendation over a larger space but warmer temps.

 

[jsshark1]

I am glad to read they will be ok even if they don't recover from the buoyancy issue. thanks for the info about it , so time will tell.

I will keep feeding them by hand till they recover the buoyancy issue ( if they recover )

I brought the temp down 1 deg last night and will do another one today. with winter coming lowering the temp is not to bad. the paper on the 720 tank is going to be the area that will be insulated to help keep it cool and keep the sun off the tank...

 

[jsshark1]

do you think that they have a better chance of recovering the buoyancy issue in the 720 that is 4' deep then in the 120 that is 18" deep ?
I see the small one breaking the surface, goes to the bottom for a second or two and them back up to the surface ( not shooting up but hovering up to the surface).

 

[jsshark1]

update

after converting my 720 gal freshwater tank in to saltwater, I now have all the Nautilus in it, I ended up with 5 of them and the LFS wont be getting any more ( out of season again he tells me), out of 5 of them only one swims freely to the bottom while the rest of them are working on getting to the bottom, as you can see the small one are like snails crawling down the wall , they spend the day as you can see resting about a third of the way down , but they still go to the top when not holding on, my one large Nautilus is spend the day bobbing up and down trying to go down but not facing the glass like the others..I can see it is very frustrated not being able to go down.

so I could only assume the small ones are going down the walls to help get accustomed to go down freely again ....

worried about the big one I decided to try something, I made something to help him go down . slowly I took him to the bottom. after I got him to the gravel and rocks he settled down and held on to one of the rocks as you can see in the picture, he also is breathing normally not fast and frustrated any more, he can move around but the top of his shell is dragging a bit...
i will only do this while i can keep a eye on them at all other times like night time he will have to work on his own getting to the bottom.

 

[jsshark1]

Hi every one
the Nautilus are doing well , most of all the small one are braking the surface , I am still giving the large one therapy lowering him to the bottom where he rest most of the day , I return him to the surface around 5pm to swim freely and to eat, it seems to be working because after releasing him he starts going down the side of the glass to about half way now.

I was hoping to find two more large ones, the LFS where i get them they have no control what size they get, I have 4 small and one big one. if possible I would like to get two more large one too see if any breeding happens I understand some people would like to see them not sold but please only positive reply's...