Message from Squidman

Dec 24, 2004
Sorry I made this a new thread, but it is necessary that I make this point.

I am leaving This is why.

When I discovered, I thought it was a Godsend. I was understood, for once, in a medium where I could express myself most effectively. I had friends that knew more about cephalopods that I do. It was the best scenario that I could be put in.

Recently, I have begun to feel... Bad.
Whenever I check the new posts, it brings me such pain observe that the "Well, it had to be on the Web" thread has been updated. I know that if I open the link, I will only feel pain. But I stay realistic, and I click on the thread, knowing that in the future, my religion will be the subject of scrutiny in the scientific community.

When I read the malicious libel, I feel emotions I haven't felt in years. My past emotional scars, numerous and deep, are ripped wide open. None of you have the faintest idea of what it feels like to have your faith insulted in such a way. None of you know the pain I feel when I enter this site.

I am not going to torture myself like this anymore.

So long, Tony. You might see me lurking around someday, but not for a long time.


[WEBMASTER EDIT: I've renamed the thread from "Attention all members" to "Message from Squidman". -- tonmo ]
Well, it is too bad that your faith does not allow for others to disbelieve...this is a scientific site, after all.
I do not follow the odd lead that the church has taken in the last few decades. For quite a while, it has been demeaning all other religions, and now science itself.
A backlash was to be expected.

We will miss your input, Squidman.

You shouldn't leave just because of a thread, I am very strongly agaisnt creationism, but I don't want anyone who believes in creationism to leave Tonmo, or leave anywhere for that matter.
The thing about tonmo is that is it a group of people from all walks of life all over the world brought together by their interest in cephalopods.

A diversity of opinions is an asset.

Everyone is entitled to their beliefs, and no-one is out to offend you.
You could start your own pro-creationsim thread, - I would read it.
Hello Squidman,

I went back to read the posts in "Well, it had to be on the web..." to see if any of them rose to the level of malicious libel. Correcting for my own atheism, I'd allow that some of it is snarky in the extreme, but malicious and libelous? I don't think so. Greg is right about this being a science site. By definition, most of the people who enage in the discourse about the history and biology of these organisms are at least familiar with evolutionary theory, and most accept some variant of the theory as the best fit for the available facts. Facts, or course, are open to interpretation, and ten people can witness the same event and "see" very different, sometimes contradictory things. Science moves forward when those who drive it reach some kind of consensus on what they apprehend, and then try to come up with a comprehensible explanation that correlates with what they see.

Religion, on the other hand, trades heavily in That Which Cannot Be Seen (by mortal eyes, at least). You may have noticed that when we at TONMO speculate grandly or foolishly about unseen, unknown animals and their unseen, unknown behavior and traits, we tend to get shot down post haste. I've felt quite foolish on any number of occasions, but I never felt I was being libeled or personally demeaned. Your beliefs may not be widely accepted in these parts, but they were tolerated, and I think it's unfortunate that you've interpreted generally respectful intellectual challenges as personal, spiritual affronts.

Let me put it to you a bit more bluntly, Squidman: if your beliefs are strongly held and carefully considered, why not stand your ground and fight? It would be a shame to lose you, since you're a bright, good sort, but if the very sight of your nemesis thread really does offend thine eye, don't keep reading that thread. Self-flagellation passed out of Christian favor long ago.

I'm sorry to see that you've decided to leave the site. I hope you'll re-consider.

Sorry to hear you're leaving squidman.........but why read the thread if it bothers you that much? We can agree to differ after all. I'm pretty ambiguous about the whole debate. Was raised in the faith, my Mum has a diploma in theology and is very much a creationist....I'm a scientist, but I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.....nevertheless Mum & I have agreed to differ and tend not to discuss this (the "discussions" got a bit loud!).

If you decide to revisit us, you'll be welcome.


You're a very intelligent, perceptive Tonmoer who brings something very valuable to the table here. It would be a shame to have you go; I do hope you reconsider.
I am very, very sorry to read this. Squidman, you're a valued member of the community.

Obviously you're not alone -- we have tons of "lurker" visitors and I have personally received several PMs/emails from people (lurkers and not) expressing disappointment on posts made in these forums on various subjects, including faith and politics. My answer is pretty consistent -- if you don't like it, you don't have to read it.

(As an aside, I won't get into it here, but check out a post from me somewhere else in this forum reiterating our on-topic / off-topic post policies. They are indeed enforced. Since we are a community, and discussions do evolve, we do allow some off-topic posts in replies to threads. All, remember that every new thread must be about cephs except in the Supporters forum.)

If the very sight of the thread having new posts is literally too agonizing, then there's not much I can do to help. Personally, I don't bother reading that thread myself, mostly because it's not high on my priority list. If you don't agree, either a) voice your position, b) ignore it completely, or c) do a) then b). Seems you've gotten a) out of the way, so you're at least halfway there! :smile: But don't let that thread defeat your interest in cephs and in the community. That'd be an awful shame.

I hope you can basically ignore that thread and come here for the reason we're all here in the first place -- not politics, evolution, war, religion, or poop (ask octobot)... but rather, cephs.

And dude, you should see the Supporter's forum. :biggrin2: Seems I could use your help in The Troll of Dosidicus thread. :mrgreen:
Absolutely Squidman, as Tony, Clem, Erich and all the above posters have stated, please don't leave. At the end of the day we are all interested in the same thing, i.e cephalopods. Life is simply too short to find umbrage in a single thread; we have more in common here than we have differences.

Some posters may be religious and some atheist, but we all benefit out of reading each others posts and interacting whether or not we agree. If one wants to read about the biology or hunting strategy of Chiroteuthis it matters not a jot if one is pro- or anti- Bush, or believe that the world was created 6,000 years ago.

If you disagree with the Intelligent Design criticism and don't want to post there, just ignore the thread. But whatever you do please don't leave, no-one will gain anything from that.
Please rethink your decision.

Squidman, I have to agree with everyone else. It makes no sense for you to leave the entire site when there is only one thread you don't like. It seems obvious that if you are offended and pained by the views of most of the people who post to that thread, then don't go there. You have a lot to offer, and would be sorely missed. If you choose to leave anyway, no one can stop you, but it really would be a shame. Both of my grandfathers were ministers, I was brought up going to church or participating in church activities in one form or another about 6 times a week. I went to a Christian university where religion studies were required, so obviously I took a lot of them. Beliefs can differ widely in various Christian churches and our professors encouraged critical thinking, learning about the history of the Bible, understanding the difficulties with translation that have occurred over the centuries, learning to identify when and by whom various passages of the Bible were written. All of my religion teachers were ordained ministers with docterates in various aspects of theology. None of them were Creationists, they were, however very devout Christians. Being a Christian and being an evolutionist are not mutually exclusive concepts.

I sincerely hope you will reconsider.

I went to church once.

(actually, I was an acolyte, and had considered the priesthood...believe it or not...then I met this girl and )
I went five days a week for 5 years when I was at an anglican school when I was younger. Thats actually quite a lot of church for a devout atheiest. Over 1/6 days of my entire life having gone to church. I never quantified that before!!!
I certainly want to chime in as well asking you to reconsider. I value your contribution here, and I actually found your last post on the thread in question to be very sensible and reasonable. I'm not sure what posts in particular you see as attacking Christianity in general-- I certainly don't have the impression that anyone is bothered by Christians or the Christian religion as a whole. As you yourself said, the things that thread are complaining about are not representative of Christianity as a whole, and I believe that is understood as implicit in the discussion. However, it's not my place to question what you may or may not find offensive, but I would urge you to either just avoid reading the thread or try to be accepting that there are people who have strong opinions on the topic, some of which may rub you the wrong way. No one is excluding you from offering differing viewpoints, and in fact when you last chimed into the discussion, several of us agreed with you and offered supporting comments, and no one directly rebutted your opinions at all.

To be honest, I'm completely perplexed at this being an issue, since you've generally come across to me as entirely reasonable, mature, and open. I have no idea where you get the idea that the thread objects to Christianity in any large sense; in my reading, it's only objecting to Christians who hold a particularly radical literal view of the Bible, and insist that it should be incorporated into the scientific establishment and the public educational system, to the subversion of the scientific method and all the principles on which science is founded. Since you've made it clear that you don't consider them representative of your interpretation of Christianity, I really don't understand your stance...

I hope you stay, but I wish you well if you decide not to. :goodbye: if that's what you prefer.
Not much to say, please don't leave us! You're a great member and we all value your contribution here.

We all wish for you to stay, but if you decide to leave, then :goodbye:

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