Wunderpuss (possible Mimic)

[OB]

Mike, I truly and honestly appreciate your enthusiasm, yet: Small egg species can be done to some extent if there is a vast amount of space and a vast amount of crab zoeae from their local environment in place, plus most likely a host of planktonic prey items yet unbeknownst to us, each idealy suited for maybe even a single day in the developmental stages the larval octopus goes through.

Experiments with Octopus vulgaris are ongoing, for reasons of commercial aquaculture, and they are hardly successful... Do not hold your breath for anything at an aquarist scale within the forseeable future, I am close to locking this thread as the discussion would drag on and on and not lead to anything else than the horses flogged fiercely and with a passion elsewhere in this forum, regardless of their inanimity.

PS: Mike, if you think locking is a harsh overreaction, induced by a week of hard work and stress, you are likely right

PPS: So I won't, but let's return to the topic, shall we? Ethics and exotics is a BIG one, reason the more we should have a forum discussion, come TONMOCON IV, Greg Oh Greg, where art thou?

 

[Mike Bauer]

I really don't see any problem with this post. It has been very informational in many ways; at least for me. Everything we are talking about so far is on the topic of the post (to keep or not to keep a rare octopus). But like you say it is beating a dead horse so I will consider it closed. Thanks for your concern. Oh yes, I don't keep octopus but have been interested in them for a while now I didn't know there were any rare kind till just lately.

 

[Grey]

I visited the octopus today. The LFS is 45 miles from my house so I made sure to find the differences to ID this specimen. I'm quite sure it is in fact Thaumoctopus mimicus. I was told the specimen is approximately 4-6 months old. I took the time to study it for a little while and it looks to be in good health and it is eating emerald crabs. The LFS owner still calls it a Ribbon octopus, I wasn't able to find such an animal online.

I am planning to have the LFS hold this animal for 3 weeks then I'm going to put it in my reef tank until its home is properly cycled. Not to worry either folks all the fish and stinging corals will be moved.

If Tonmo doesn't mind I would like to start a thread. I plan to post photos, captive behavior, my experiences, and hopefully husbandry tips.

 

[Mike Bauer]

Wunderpus vs Mimic
Diving with Mimic Octopus | Creature Features
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1888654667283528144#
Wimp.com

Is it male or female? I hope it live a long health life for you! Good luck.
Please! Don't forget to explain to the shop owner the evils of selling this rare critter and ask him to stop ordering it. I look forward to see you photos.

 

[Grey]

Wunderpus vs Mimic
Diving with Mimic Octopus | Creature Features
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1888654667283528144#
Wimp.com

Is it male or female? I hope it live a long health life for you! Good luck.
Please! Don't forget to explain to the shop owner the evils of selling this rare critter and ask him to stop ordering it. I look forward to see you photos.

I talked with the LFS owner a bit about this. He says he only sees these available on his list once every couple years and that he gets one everytime. Honestly he doesn't care about the evils of it, and the damage is done once his supplier has the animal. I can't say im not excited about this purchase, but I'd rather already have a dedicated tank and be purchasing one of the more common species. I even considered buying a few cuttlefish eggs for my frag tank.

 

[CaptFish]

Honestly he doesn't care about the evils of it, and the damage is done once his supplier has the animal.

I disagree. The supplier is getting the animal because there is a market for them. He catches them and LFS's buy them. The LFS only gets it because he is able to sell it and make a profit. Regardless of what you how told the LFS about not getting them, in the end YOU bought it, and so the LFS and the supplier havenow made there profit. Well as long as he is making a profit on it, he is going to get more in the future. He successfully sold it. why would he stop.

I think this sucks!

 

[OB]

If Tonmo doesn't mind I would like to start a thread. I plan to post photos, captive behavior, my experiences, and hopefully husbandry tips.

You'd have to define "Tonmo", as it's all of us. If you're referring to Staff, I am sure you'd find people on either side of the fence, one stating that publically journalling keeping a mimic is only going to enthuse more hobbyists, therewith accelerating the demise of this fragile species, the other stating that the constant reminder that "no one else should be doing this" gets a better spotlight turned on to it by way of exposure.

My personal stance, for what it's worth, is I would strongly advise against keeping the species and keeping a journal therewith becomes irrelevant.

A journal in the supporters' section, perhaps, as that's sort of "private".

But husbandry, please no, for any matching gender specimen to successfully make it to your tank, 4 to 6 will die along the way, if not more. Plus, your purported set-up is simply not suited for this sort of work, nor is the food supply you would be able to offer.

For the record: Artemia and Mysis do not work, I repeat, Artemia and Mysis do not work. Flog! Flog! Rise horse, dammit!

 

[Mike Bauer]

I suggest contacting Thales and sharing your findings.
Welcome to Daisy Hill Cuttle Farm!

As for food:

Feeding habits

Mimics either stalk their prey or can be seen foraging over an area of sand, probing into holes using the tips of their fine arms to flush small crustaceans and fish into its suckers, and from there into its mouth.

 

[gjbarord]

There are very few George Baileys left in this world that would give up profit to save an octopus population that most of the world probably doesn't even know about. No matter what anyone's intentions may be regarding this issue, they do not translate to the black and red numbers every month.

Greg

 

[Thales]

Sorry, but as I understand it you purchased one, kept it and are still studying it. Are you not?

No. I did not purchase it from a LFS and this happened several years ago. I think it would benefit everyone if you would read more carefully. The Wunderpus threads of mine are very long and most of them have wide ranging discussions of the ethics of keeping them. The kind of advice that you are giving based on lose reading makes me very nervous as it can other people reading the impression that you have experience and and passes along a false sense of 'easy husbandry'. This is the kind of thing I try very hard to avoid, and the kind of thing that when it happens really gives hobby animal keepers a bad reputation. If you look at any of my Wunderpus threads, specially the first one, you will see that I did a lot of work getting people to get on board with the reasons I obtained one, how that happened, and how the ethics worked and changed over time. I love your enthusiasm, but I think the animals and the community would be better served by more careful research and postings.

Nice photos of it in you article, bye the way.

Thanks!

No matter everyone has to make their own choice and live with it.

I think it matters very much. The TONMO community has worked very hard to develop a general approach to dealing with exotics. Shaking that tree with from the hip advice and care suggestions could easily become problematic and get people with experience and knowledge to stop sharing.

I believe in saving it's if possible, kind of an animal rescue thing, but if at all possible returning back to it's natural environment. So, if someone got it before it left it's native land and return it to the sea I would be happy.

This kind of thinking has been covered in great detail in the Ethics threads and some of the wunderpus threads. Please read them and comment there with any ideas or questions.

Thanks!

 

[Mike Bauer]

Sorry, I don't normally get involved in octopus affairs. I have only kept one for a few months and know very little on how to keep them. When I found a mimic and was thinking of purchasing it, I posted and asked you. you responded back rudely and provided a link, which I read and found most interesting. I have been looking them up from time to time on drve web sites and other places to see how rare they are. I choose not to get one because I lack the skill and resources to try to get them to live and breed in captivity. Kind of like what you did for the dwarf cuttlefish, they were rare once too. I do not spend all day reading every back post you or anyone else has ever written over the last 6 years. Sorry even I don't have that kind of time on my hand while job hunting. I have spent more time reading on this site the last few month (because I am trying to get a pair of dwarf cuttlefish to live and breed) than I have in the last 6 years. I wonder if this octopus is rare in it's home land or only because they don't live here in the US. Do the eat them there like we do here with ours? I would suggest contacting the person who discovered them and is studying them to ask his option on the matter. His is in one of the link I provided.

No. I did not purchase it from a LFS and this happened several years ago. It doesn't really matter how you got it, now does it. The fact is you supported it's remove from it's home in the ocean by getting it and keeping it. Publishing about doing so doesn't really help support the cause either. Divers take nice photos and share but leave the thing behind to live a survival of the fittest life. Researcher on the other hand will catch and kill things to document that they are rare or exist. Funny how that works isn't it.

Mark Norman (marine biologist)
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Mark Douglas Norman is a marine biologist living in southern Australia where he works through the University of Melbourne and Museum Victoria.[1] For over a decade, Norman has been working exclusively with cephalopods and he is one of the leading scientists in the field, having discovered over 150 new species of octopuses. The best known of these is probably the Mimic Octopus.[2]

Mark Norman is the author of Cephalopods: A World Guide, a book published in 2000 containing over 800 colour photographs of cephalopods in their natural habitat.[3]

 

[Grey]

First, I have absolutely NO intentions on breeding this animal. As far as my purported set-up not being appropriate, I think you should check the known facts about these animals again. They have been found most in muddy estuaries in the Indo-Pacific. Ok unless they are brackish then my 8'x24"x16" frag tank should be a very suitable home for this animal. The nano reef he is going into is not permanent, its just better than a 3 gallon eclipse that it is being sold in as an "octopus set-up". These animals basically eat anything they can find from what I've read. They dig and sweep in the sediment for small fish and crustaceans, that would be very easy to provide.
Ok I really enjoy reading the feedback, but I wasn't expecting to be half way talked down too. I have 20 years of fish keeping experience, I've kept everything from blackwater amazonian set-ups to acropora, lps, and soft coral reefs and everything in between.
Also, this is only speculation and is based on no facts other than reading, being these animal are found in sediment filled estuaries leaves me to believe that they have to be somewhat hardy. I think given the hard to see in water and plenty of hiding places, that they are most likely collected using less than desirable methods.

 

[Mike Bauer]

First, I have absolutely NO intentions on breeding this animal. As far as my purported set-up not being appropriate, I think you should check the known facts about these animals again. They have been found most in muddy estuaries in the Indo-Pacific. Ok unless they are brackish then my 8'x24"x16" frag tank should be a very suitable home for this animal. The nano reef he is going into is not permanent, its just better than a 3 gallon eclipse that it is being sold in as an "octopus set-up". These animals basically eat anything they can find from what I've read. They dig and sweep in the sediment for small fish and crustaceans, that would be very easy to provide.
Ok I really enjoy reading the feedback, but I wasn't expecting to be half way talked down too. I have 20 years of fish keeping experience, I've kept everything from blackwater amazonian set-ups to acropora, lps, and soft coral reefs and everything in between.
Also, this is only speculation and is based on no facts other than reading, being these animal are found in sediment filled estuaries leaves me to believe that they have to be somewhat hardy. I think given the hard to see in water and plenty of hiding places, that they are most likely collected using less than desirable methods.

Good luck with your new pet. Sound to me like it is in good hands.
Mike

 

[Mike Bauer]

I think this sucks![/QUOTE]


Maybe so. But as the old saying goes "dead or alive your coming with me" I have a new home for you.

 

[Grey]

Here is some more info if anyone is interested

Aquarium Fish: Captive Observations of the Mimic Octopus, Thaumoctopus mimicus