Wunderpuss (possible Mimic)

[Grey]

I'm new to the forums. I have kept an octopus before and had good sucess with it(common brown). Ok I have a dilemma! My LFS has a wunderpuss for sale. He called it a Ribbon Octopus, but I'm about 75% sure it is a wunderpuss not a Mimic. This guy has this beautiful creature in a 3 gallon eclipse aquarium on his desk selling it as a "octopus setup" for 250.00, or you can buy the animal for 180.00. I'm pretty ticked about the whole deal! I'm seriously thinking about obtaining this lil guy (btw his head is about half the size of a golf ball). I can setup a 55 gallon tank real quick with the help of a friend. I was gonna do a heavy sand bed with plants and some rubble rock. I would have to buy the "setup" first then set the tank up and introduce him to it. My friend is gonna help me with the cycle by providing me with the sand from his 375 gallon reef. I cant put him into my reef tank because it is too small and is a open top aquarium. I'm torn here because I don't want to see someone new to the hobby purchase this, kill the animal, and ruin their interest in the hobby. But I am also unsure of doing this because of the money it will cost and Im unsure about the species.

ANY ADVICE WOULD BE APPRECIATED

BTW nice site I love to see so many people dedicated to ceph care, I love these animals very much.

 

[DWhatley]

Check the exotics forum for some thoughts on keeping this animal as well as how to identify it. The collective thinking of the staff leans heavily towards not purchasing these animals for the benefit of the whole (loss of money by the seller = fewer purchases). Personally, I hope I never see one in a pet store, it was very hard to not buy the nautilus I saw once for the same concerns. I did not purchase the animal but visited it twice.

Wunderpus tend to be hard to keep and short lived but there have been a few to live a more normal life span (many we have seen die or brood within a month or two). If you are not aware of the naturally short life span of octopuses, do a bit more reading before you make a decision.

 

[SabrinaR]

Unfortunately it would be better to NOT get the animal. It will most likely die due to stress and by the time you get everything set up, even if its a mini cycle.. its at least 2 weeks. I dont see this going well for you. Here at TONMO we dont advocate keeping these animals in aquaria for a number of reasons... first being the very low success rate at keeping them alive. Second being that their numbers in the wild are completely unknown. As heartless as it may seem, it would be better that this one animal dies (in the store) so the owner doesnt order any more and further promote keeping these animals at this time.

I know its a very hard thing to do... but I would really warn against this.

 

[Grey]

Ok, I do understand the short life spans of cephlapods in general. The dilemma here is, this animal WILL sell at this store. This particular store is the only one of its kind in this particular area. He has an absurd customer base, and it seems there are new people in there everytime I pop in. So the worst case scenario is someone new to the hobby buys this animal and it dies a cruel death in a 3 gallon aquarium. Best case scenario, me or someone like me gives it a shot. Impossible scenario, it dies in his store. I've been thinking alot about doing a ceph tank lately, it seems if I setup a 55 gallon if I do lose the animal prematurely I would still be able to use the tank for a bimac. BTW, does the deep sandbed with the calupera sound like a good setup for a bimac?

 

[Grey]

Oh, and thanks for the timely responses =)

 

[asid61]

I'm going to agree with DWhatley and Sabrina. Even though I don't have any experience, just ask the store owner not to order them and tell him/her why. But don't buy the octo.

 

[Mike Bauer]

I tend to agree with Grey, I would suggest talking to the owner and make sure he/she understands that they shouldn't order them but if it is healthy and looks like it can be saved then follow Thale's lead - get it. Now the nice thing to do would be to take it to a place that could keep it alive and donate it to them like your public aquarium or call them and maybe they will go get it. I have found that some places have special permit that allow them to sell rare items but usely only to research centers or public aquariums. I had a hard time passing up purchasing a mimic octopus a month ago. Hard choice good luck.

http://www.tonmo.com/forums/showthread.php?11058-Wunderpus-Article

 

[Thales]

I tend to agree with Grey, I would suggest talking to the owner and make sure he/she understands that they shouldn't order them but if it is healthy and looks like it can be saved then follow Thale's lead - get it.

That is not my lead! I tend to think purchasing these animals from LFS encourage them to stock more of them.

 

[Mike Bauer]

Sorry, but as I understand it you purchased one, kept it and are still studying it. Are you not? Nice photos of it in you article, bye the way. No matter everyone has to make their own choice and live with it. I believe in saving it's if possible, kind of an animal rescue thing, but if at all possible returning back to it's natural environment. So, if someone got it before it left it's native land and return it to the sea I would be happy.

 

[gjbarord]

From the perspective of the store, it really doesn't matter who buys it and why they are buying it. If someone buys the animal then it is almost a certainty that the store will try to obtain more of that species. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

Greg

 

[DWhatley]

I think Grey's argument is that it WILL be purchased because of the store traffic so the damage is done. The question remains on what environment will it end up in, an uncycled tank or a tank too small. Perhaps the later is best if the purchaser is POed that they were sold an inappropriate setup.

 

[Mike Bauer]

Well let say that Thales's octopus is a male and this place is a female! Wouldn't it be in everyone's best interest if he purchased it and mated it with his to keep the race going and help breed them in captivity? Or should we just let it die while the chance remains that it has a chance to reproduce. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one.

 

[Neogonodactylus]

Wunderpus larvae have not, and are not likely to be successfully reared. That does not mean that there isn't a lot to be learned about the behavior and physiology of these animals by observing interactions between them. Some of this information can be gained in the field, but observation is difficult and very, very expensive. Controlled laboratory observation has its place and I and other biologists engage in it. The goal is to understand and ultimately protect these animals and the habitat in which they exist.

Roy

 

[DWhatley]

Mike,
You really need to read more on the current state of octopus husbandry before suggesting saving the world of the Wunderpus by captive breeding. We have yet to successfully raise many large egg species (let alone breed them) in an aquarium environment. The small egg species have proven to be far more difficult to raise and miniscule success only (none through a second generation nore any to full adults that I have read about) been achieved with common species. At the current technology and knowledge levels, breeding and/or raising eggs is a guaranteed failure.

 

[Mike Bauer]

Mike,
You really need to read more on the current state of octopus husbandry before suggesting saving the world of the Wunderpus by captive breeding. We have yet to successfully raise many large egg species (let alone breed them) in an aquarium environment. The small egg species have proven to be far more difficult to raise and miniscule success only (none through a second generation nore any to full adults that I have read about) been achieved with common species. At the current technology and knowledge levels, breeding and/or raising eggs is a guaranteed failure.

But does anyone know why it is a failure? If one studies the location they come from and gets information on things like water temp, water detail (get water samples and test for everything), that sort of information. Scuba divers from that area could supply a great deal of information on them, if asked. But Yes I see your point but If Thales could get the aquarium to support such a project, like he did when he breed the dwarf cuttlefish for the 1st time, wouldn't that be great?