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Fossil Hooks

Phil

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Clem,

It was not really the picture being reversed I was worried about; it was why one site had Acanthoteuthis listed as a belemnite and another site as a squid. Obviously they both could not be right.

After having done a little digging around (pardon the pun), it transpires that strictly neither is correct, depending on how pedantic one wants to be with the terminology. Acanthoteuthis appears to be a member of an obscure extinct order of coeloids known as belemnoteuthida which existed from the mid-Carboniferous to the Cretaceous(?). Despite the name, it seems that were a completely seperate order from the belemnites and were distinguished by a well-developed phragmacone and a very thin and delicate guard. With the belemnites the phragmacone is apparantly much shorter but the guard much more robust.

I'm sure it's much clearer with a diagram!

Other members of this order were Phragmoteuthis from the Triassic and Belemnoteuthis from the Jurassic and Cretaceous.

With many internet sources, including many fossil shops, confusing belemnites with squids and with an order name of belemnoteuthidae, it's no wonder there is some confusion! It certainly had me scratching my head.
 

Clem

Architeuthis
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Phil said:
It was not really the picture being reversed I was worried about; it was why one site had Acanthoteuthis listed as a belemnite and another site as a squid. Obviously they both could not be right.
Since I'm not really qualified to worry about species designations, I left that issue alone, wondering instead if the reversed image (produced as a "female" mold of the original fossil) might have led the good people at peachtree.edu to mis-label their "fossil." I sometimes drop in on various millitary aviation sites, where reversed photographs can lead fellow enthusiasts to believe that they've found a "new" variant of an aircraft: supercharger intakes on the starboard side of a nacelle become port-side intakes, and the next thing you know, someone's found a long-lost prototype. Happens a lot, even in books.

Clem
 

Architeuthoceras

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Let's do some Nit Pickin

The TOL page refers the picture to a Belemnoid not a Belemnite, a Belemnite (Order Belemnitida) is a Belemnoid as are Belemnoteuthids. alot like the difference between a Ammonite and an Ammonoid. An Ammonite (Orders like Lytoceratida, Ammonitida, and Phyloceratida) is an Ammonoid (members of the ?Subclass Ammonoidea) as are Goniatites (Order Goniatitida) and Ceratites (Order Ceratitida). But I am only confusing myself, so I will leave taxonomy to the toxonomists :bugout:

:ammonite:
 

Phil

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Thanks for clearing that up Kevin.

Right.......can anyone send me an asprin? I bet taxonomists have extremely tidy houses, everything in its place! :shock:
 

Phil

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I've just read the debate...most interesting :wink: . I have not got a clue what it is, but it is flipping big to be a belemnite hook if you ask me, and too rounded. Still, I am probably wrong as usual. Anyone have any opinions?
 

fossilkid25

Blue Ring
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Feb 25, 2006
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hey guys
i have alot of hooks from belemnites that i have found here in peterborough. they are hard to keep complete but they are rare aswell. let me know if you would like a link to see 1 of mine that i have for sale on my website. but i dont want to advertise it i just want to show it.
 

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