- Joined
- Nov 19, 2002
- Messages
- 2,456
Dont know quite what to think about this 
http://www.graptolite.net/clistro.html
Maybe if they had an actual photo
http://www.graptolite.net/clistro.html
Maybe if they had an actual photo
Fossil Cephalopod Eggs
- Thread starter Architeuthoceras
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2004
- Messages
- 1,631
Hey, What Bouncy Music!
Nice link; if in fact those are cephalopod eggs (look kinda like cuttlefish eggs to me), I wonder what variety?
Erich
Nice link; if in fact those are cephalopod eggs (look kinda like cuttlefish eggs to me), I wonder what variety?
Erich
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2002
- Messages
- 4,672
Very nice link indeed!! They're quite dissimilar to any cirrate egg with which I'm familiar.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2002
- Messages
- 3,028
Re: Hey, What Bouncy Music!
Erich,
If those are cephalopod eggs then they are certainly nautiloid. None of the other cephalopod groups had evolved at that early date, not even the most primitive ammonoids. However, precisely what form of nautiloid is impossible to say as they were quite a diverse bunch of animals back in the Ordovician. Mastigograptus appears to date from the Middle-Upper Ordovician, something like 470-443m.
I found the original reference to these if anyone fancies tracking it down (one might have to travel to Poland though!):
Kozlowski, R (1965) Oeufs fossiles des cephalopodes? Acta Palaeontologica Polonica 10: 3-9.
I'd be surprised if they were cephalopod eggs as according to Regis Chirat in his 2001 paper Anomalies of embryonic shell growth in post-Triassic Nautilida no fossilised nautiloid eggs have ever been discovered. Unless Chirat missed these in his paper which looks extremely comprehensive, one can only assume they have been reinterpreted.
Denis Bates and Adam Urbanek The ultrastructure, development, and systematic position of the graptolite genus Mastigograptus 2002
In the above reference, a recent very detailed revision of Mastigograptus (and far, far too complicated for me) there is a brief mention of the eggs but it does not add much about the eggs themselves. Graptolites, long extinct, were bizarre colonial invertebrates that consisted of branches and tubes containing individual animals linked to a single invidual which was often anchored via a disc to the sea bed or rocks, though other forms were probably planktonic floaters. Some looked like leaves, others disks, and still others like sticks or miniature fan corals (though they were probably Hemichordates and very distantly related to the vertebrates).
As for Mastiogograptus, that appears to be a peculiar form of early sessile graptolite attached to the sea floor and appears to be somewhat problematic amongst those who study these things.
Phil
erich orser said:
Erich,
If those are cephalopod eggs then they are certainly nautiloid. None of the other cephalopod groups had evolved at that early date, not even the most primitive ammonoids. However, precisely what form of nautiloid is impossible to say as they were quite a diverse bunch of animals back in the Ordovician. Mastigograptus appears to date from the Middle-Upper Ordovician, something like 470-443m.
I found the original reference to these if anyone fancies tracking it down (one might have to travel to Poland though!):
Kozlowski, R (1965) Oeufs fossiles des cephalopodes? Acta Palaeontologica Polonica 10: 3-9.
I'd be surprised if they were cephalopod eggs as according to Regis Chirat in his 2001 paper Anomalies of embryonic shell growth in post-Triassic Nautilida no fossilised nautiloid eggs have ever been discovered. Unless Chirat missed these in his paper which looks extremely comprehensive, one can only assume they have been reinterpreted.
Denis Bates and Adam Urbanek The ultrastructure, development, and systematic position of the graptolite genus Mastigograptus 2002
In the above reference, a recent very detailed revision of Mastigograptus (and far, far too complicated for me) there is a brief mention of the eggs but it does not add much about the eggs themselves. Graptolites, long extinct, were bizarre colonial invertebrates that consisted of branches and tubes containing individual animals linked to a single invidual which was often anchored via a disc to the sea bed or rocks, though other forms were probably planktonic floaters. Some looked like leaves, others disks, and still others like sticks or miniature fan corals (though they were probably Hemichordates and very distantly related to the vertebrates).
As for Mastiogograptus, that appears to be a peculiar form of early sessile graptolite attached to the sea floor and appears to be somewhat problematic amongst those who study these things.
Phil
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2002
- Messages
- 2,456
Maybe Sepia or its ancestors made their eggs look like whatever these things are to disquise them.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2004
- Messages
- 601
Re: Hey, What Bouncy Music!
Just so happens that a certain Polish friend of mine is checking out the Polish fossil scene over the Xmas holiday, if he gets time (at -25 deg.C it may not be a priority). As Tonmo's unofficial eyes & ears on the continent I will endeavour to bring home the bacon !
Phil said:
Just so happens that a certain Polish friend of mine is checking out the Polish fossil scene over the Xmas holiday, if he gets time (at -25 deg.C it may not be a priority). As Tonmo's unofficial eyes & ears on the continent I will endeavour to bring home the bacon !
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2004
- Messages
- 804
I wonder if someone might find preserved soft tissue in one of those things? Probably not, but it's nice to think about!
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2002
- Messages
- 3,028
Re: Hey, What Bouncy Music!
That'd be great, Spartacus. I'm sure it's a top read in Poland! Looks like the article is in French so I'm sure TPOTH can help us out if we do get a copy.
That'd be fantastic, wouldn't it. You know, it really seems very strange that we haven't found ammonite soft-body parts before. Even in sites of exceptional preservation such as Solnhofen in Germany, we have soft-body fossils of belemnites and vampyromorphs. Ammonites are really common at that locality too so by rights we should have found such fossils. So why haven't we, I wonder? Maybe they were particularly gelatinous or had a peculiar chemical make-up that just wouldn't preserve.
One day one of those academics will find one. Then again, it might be you, Kevin, Spartacus or any of us. I think that's part of the fun of palaeontology, anyone can find something really exciting!
spartacus said:As Tonmo's unofficial eyes & ears on the continent I will endeavour to bring home the bacon !
That'd be great, Spartacus. I'm sure it's a top read in Poland! Looks like the article is in French so I'm sure TPOTH can help us out if we do get a copy.
cephkid said:
That'd be fantastic, wouldn't it. You know, it really seems very strange that we haven't found ammonite soft-body parts before. Even in sites of exceptional preservation such as Solnhofen in Germany, we have soft-body fossils of belemnites and vampyromorphs. Ammonites are really common at that locality too so by rights we should have found such fossils. So why haven't we, I wonder? Maybe they were particularly gelatinous or had a peculiar chemical make-up that just wouldn't preserve.
One day one of those academics will find one. Then again, it might be you, Kevin, Spartacus or any of us. I think that's part of the fun of palaeontology, anyone can find something really exciting!
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2004
- Messages
- 601
Re: Hey, What Bouncy Music!
My Polish runner, Martin knew nothing about fossils until I showed him my humble assortment & what is lying about around here, when I told him how old they were he flipped hence he's finding out about fossils at home but at temperatures down to -30 deg.C winter digging is limited to doing it indoors !
Vodka stops their blood freezing I'm reliably informed.
As for who finds soft ammonite body parts 1st - race ya !
I'm still due a bit of marine reptile, perleaze !
Phil said:spartacus said:As Tonmo's unofficial eyes & ears on the continent I will endeavour to bring home the bacon !
That'd be great, Spartacus. I'm sure it's a top read in Poland! Looks like the article is in French so I'm sure TPOTH can help us out if we do get a copy.
One day one of those academics will find one. Then again, it might be you, Kevin, Spartacus or any of us. I think that's part of the fun of palaeontology, anyone can find something really exciting!
My Polish runner, Martin knew nothing about fossils until I showed him my humble assortment & what is lying about around here, when I told him how old they were he flipped hence he's finding out about fossils at home but at temperatures down to -30 deg.C winter digging is limited to doing it indoors !
Vodka stops their blood freezing I'm reliably informed.As for who finds soft ammonite body parts 1st - race ya !
I'm still due a bit of marine reptile, perleaze !
Similar threads
