Currents change?

Sorry, prawn trawling is one of the most environmentally destructive of all fishing practices (usually using bottom trawls with light-weight, small bobbins or pieces of rubber on the ground rope). It is responsible for most damage done to the seabed between 250-550m in New Zealand; terrible damage is and has been done elsewhere (for almost a century).

I can't remember the true stats offhand (and these will vary from region to region), but you can expect ~90% of the total catch to be bycatch (including your octopuses). It is responsible for the extinction of one species of cirrate octopus, and near-extinction of an incirrate species in New Zealand, and a wealth of other molluscan, echinoderm and coelenterate species.
H. lunulata said:
IT is all in Gods hands i mean itis whatever he has planned for us

Hi there,

I'm sorry but I have to make a comment about this statement.

First off let me say that this is not going to be a personal attack on you, but I have heard this statement from many people when discussing many topics. Your post just set me off.

In my opinion, comments such as these are very dangerous as they are a form of "cop-out"
Saying that something is pre-ordained by a higher power is a way to "relieve" us of the burden of guilt and thereby the burden of fixing the problem.

In my opinion we are the masters of our own fate and we are doing the damage. Therefore we are resposible for whatever outcome is generated by said damage.

I understand and honour the need for religious belief and expression, but because this a public board I felt a need to counter this statement with another view on "our" worlds situation.

Even if there is a "plan" built and conducted by a higher power, we should not go along our merry way destroying the world around us and blaming a "God" by saying it is their "plan".

Please, I'm not trying to turn this thread into a religious discussion and please do not take this personaly. If you wish to begin a debate on the topic of religion and the sciences, I beleive it would be better done in PMs as this is not a forum for such topics.

If you wish to debate, I look forward to hearing from you. :smile:

Right on. I'm glad that you responded to that first, since my response would've been less even-tempered. It's a [darned] [silly] [thing] for [people] to say.
I too believe for people to help the earth and all its inhabitants but i was just saying that whatever is in Gods plan is in his plan so if it was going to happen it will happen but we still should try to help the earth beacause God wants us to be helpful to each other and our enviroment now that we have completely blew the term ON TOPIC out of the water i just want to say i do not want to get into a debate into anything(even though i am a lawyer) can we please talk cephs because i dont feel like offending anyone else as i seem to have
And no it is not sill/dumb for people to express their opinions as you seem to have done quite well i might add so please dont attack someone for simply expressing their opinion as it came off that way

I've received a note from a religious, regular poster and valued TONMO member regarding this thread. No alarm bells - back to business - but if we could temper any religious debate it would be appreciated.
I didn't realise much of a debate had started.

I agree that this isn't the right forum for such discussions and that's why I suggested any debate be taken into PMs.

I apologise if my post caused any ire, but a balancing statement needed to be made. This is the last post I will make concerning religion and this topic.

Again, I apologise.


** Add-on: If anything I post offends you in anyway, please feel free to send a PM to ME explaining how I offended you. I'm an open reasonable man and I love to talk about religion, philosophy and science. Lets try and fix the problem. Lets talk.
True prawn trawlers suck pretty hard but these guys are at least on smaller boats.
They ain't going anywhere fast although gov trying to buy out their liscences.
And they are using new nets that reduce the by catch by quite a lot.
Still they are ocean raping bastards I agree.... not all the people on them are so bad and they were happy to save me a few pussys or even a feeder crab or 10. Have yet to take them up on either tho...

prob best to take a few limpit mines next time.....

All the religeous talk makes ya wonder if a numb fish could make a good pet though.... livebearer, electric and apparently playful. What more could you want in a strange looking electric ray?
The last post on this thread was in April, but I just came upon it and have read all the posts. I ws particularly impressed with ArchyNorth's terrific links. I read all of them (and followed links within them) and one I would really like to recommend is

USC refers to Union of Concerned Scientists, one of my favorite NGOs. They have some really good info.

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