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CHALLENGE
- Thread starter Tintenfisch
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What this is, and
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Amazing article! It appears that Archis have reproduction habits that rival the Surinam Toad's in weirdness. What I'm not clear on (due to my own non-professional status rather than any lack of clarity in the paper) is whether this indicates conclusively that Archis are terminal breeders. Just wondering....
My Two Gold Doubloons
My Two Gold Doubloons
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Howdo Tani.
I'd say that they did spawn several times within any breeding season, but that they do not survive that season. I had initially thought that several hundred thousand eggs might be contained within a single gelatinous egg mass (based on the phenomenal number of eggs, several hundreds of thousands, in the mature female's ovary), although I now have reason to believe the number is significantly less (and that she may release a number of these gelatinous egg masses with somewhere in the order of thousands of eggs contained within them instead). That's slightly off the topic though.
A statolith (see Fig 1 attached here) is a tiny bone located within the cartilage of the head (inside a chamber called the statocyst). In a mature Architeuthis of mantle length ~ 2 m this bone is about 2-3 mm in greatest dimension (i.e. it is very tiny). Thin-section light-microscopic analysis of the statolith's structure (counts of rings) has proven a good tool for aging squid. When the number of rings in the statolith of mature Architeuthis are counted we see ~ 470 rings (see Fig. 2 attached here; don't worry about the letters on the image). Each ring is supposed to be deposited on a daily basis (this has been validated for a number of shallow- and warm-water species of squid, but not for deep-sea cold-water species; there is a lot of debate). If an Architeuthis was to spawn off West Coast South Island (Hokitika region) in the months of July and August, then live a further six months, during which time it migrated to the East Coast of South Island (off Banks Peninsula) to spawn again, I would expect there to be a further ~ 180 rings deposited on the statolith (when sectioned and counted). I don't see this; the ages of both East and West Coast specimens are comparable.
This suggests that the animals are either terminal spawners, or that they migrate outside of the New Zealand region once they have spawned, either to die OR to live longer and return to spawn another season. The latter is unlikely, as again you do not get statolith ring counts of ~ 550 rings (and you do not get considerably larger females, which you would expect if they lived for several seasons). The former also seems unlikely, because if something is exhausted why waste residual energy to migrate away only to die.
It is all indirect evidence, but it certainly suggests that the animals are terminal spawners. Moreover, the evidence supports the existence of two spatially and temporally separate populations of Architeuthis in New Zealand waters (however, the DNA evidence ... more to follow soon .... does not support the existence of two separate species).
What has always confused me, if Architeuthis is so common in New Zealand waters, is why more strandings are not found (if they are in fact terminal spawners). I am aware of only two strandings in the past 8 years (my how time flys), and both specimens looked as if they had been discarded by trawlers at sea (as opposed to natural mortality post spawning).
There are so many interesting questions to address yet when it comes to this animal!!
I'd say that they did spawn several times within any breeding season, but that they do not survive that season. I had initially thought that several hundred thousand eggs might be contained within a single gelatinous egg mass (based on the phenomenal number of eggs, several hundreds of thousands, in the mature female's ovary), although I now have reason to believe the number is significantly less (and that she may release a number of these gelatinous egg masses with somewhere in the order of thousands of eggs contained within them instead). That's slightly off the topic though.
A statolith (see Fig 1 attached here) is a tiny bone located within the cartilage of the head (inside a chamber called the statocyst). In a mature Architeuthis of mantle length ~ 2 m this bone is about 2-3 mm in greatest dimension (i.e. it is very tiny). Thin-section light-microscopic analysis of the statolith's structure (counts of rings) has proven a good tool for aging squid. When the number of rings in the statolith of mature Architeuthis are counted we see ~ 470 rings (see Fig. 2 attached here; don't worry about the letters on the image). Each ring is supposed to be deposited on a daily basis (this has been validated for a number of shallow- and warm-water species of squid, but not for deep-sea cold-water species; there is a lot of debate). If an Architeuthis was to spawn off West Coast South Island (Hokitika region) in the months of July and August, then live a further six months, during which time it migrated to the East Coast of South Island (off Banks Peninsula) to spawn again, I would expect there to be a further ~ 180 rings deposited on the statolith (when sectioned and counted). I don't see this; the ages of both East and West Coast specimens are comparable.
This suggests that the animals are either terminal spawners, or that they migrate outside of the New Zealand region once they have spawned, either to die OR to live longer and return to spawn another season. The latter is unlikely, as again you do not get statolith ring counts of ~ 550 rings (and you do not get considerably larger females, which you would expect if they lived for several seasons). The former also seems unlikely, because if something is exhausted why waste residual energy to migrate away only to die.
It is all indirect evidence, but it certainly suggests that the animals are terminal spawners. Moreover, the evidence supports the existence of two spatially and temporally separate populations of Architeuthis in New Zealand waters (however, the DNA evidence ... more to follow soon .... does not support the existence of two separate species).
What has always confused me, if Architeuthis is so common in New Zealand waters, is why more strandings are not found (if they are in fact terminal spawners). I am aware of only two strandings in the past 8 years (my how time flys), and both specimens looked as if they had been discarded by trawlers at sea (as opposed to natural mortality post spawning).
There are so many interesting questions to address yet when it comes to this animal!!
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Again, fascinating. Do you suppose this implies that the female mates with more than one male during that season, or conversely, that some of the spermatophores from a single mate are retained and "portioned out" over the release of several egg-spheres?
I don't know if I expressed that clearly, but hopefully you know what I mean -- e.g., I've read that some female sharks appear to give birth parthenogenetically (sp?), when in fact they are able to retain sperm from a single mating for extended periods of time, and to release fertilized eggs at intervals depending upon environmental conditions.
From the convoluted thinking
and awkward vocabulary of Tani
I don't know if I expressed that clearly, but hopefully you know what I mean -- e.g., I've read that some female sharks appear to give birth parthenogenetically (sp?), when in fact they are able to retain sperm from a single mating for extended periods of time, and to release fertilized eggs at intervals depending upon environmental conditions.
From the convoluted thinking
and awkward vocabulary of Tani
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Hi Tani,
Several shallow water squids store sperm. N. sloanii store it in the buccal region (round the mouth, a most awkward place for fertilisation, I would have thought!!). I have a vague memory of reading something somewhere that suggested that female Archis had sperm stored in the arms?????? The suggestion was that it had been "injected" by the males
Steve do you know anymore about this? I think it was an Aussie specimen.
Cheers
J
Several shallow water squids store sperm. N. sloanii store it in the buccal region (round the mouth, a most awkward place for fertilisation, I would have thought!!). I have a vague memory of reading something somewhere that suggested that female Archis had sperm stored in the arms?????? The suggestion was that it had been "injected" by the males
Steve do you know anymore about this? I think it was an Aussie specimen.Cheers
J
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TaningiaDanae said:
This is a question Kat asked several days ago; strange thing, middle of last night, I awoke (as you tend to do when thinking/dreaming about squid, trying to solve a riddle) with a possible solution. I had none earlier.
How they portion it out, if they do release several egg masses, is a problem. If the male has inserted spermatophores into several of the female's arms (and this does happen) then I suppose she need only expose one of those arms to the face of the egg mass at any point in time, thus portioning their release. If she was to cradle the egg mass with all arms then I would imagine there would be uncontrolled spermatophore discharge to the face of the egg mass. It is one possible solution Tani, but I don't know for sure what happens.
The male of ommastrephid squid, the likes of Todarodes and Nototodarus, insert spermatophores around the females mouth and beaks
(they do this with a hectocotylus, whereas Architeuthis does it with his 'terminal organ' (= penis) into the arms). At least Todarodes does (or can) release a spherical egg mass; cradling the egg mass in the arms, proximal to the beaks, probably does result in uncontrolled spermatophore discharge, but I believe Todarodes that have spawned in the laboratory have released a single egg mass only (prior to death).There's not a lot known about this sort of thing - all the more reason to immerse yourself in the subject and try and figure out what really is happening.
Cheers
O
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LOL - Jean, you must have snuck that post in while I was composing mine. I got quite a shock there.
Go Kiwi gal!
O
Go Kiwi gal!
O
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Ah well great minds think alike, at least squid obsessed ones do!
Nice increments in the statolith! I notice that the increments are in "groups" any feeling on what may trigger this?? Nototodarus statoliths have this "patterning" too. But it doesn't seem to fit any pattern I can think of eg not lunar etc
Yes it's true,...... I'm a frustrated chronobiologist (the only sort there is!!!) my masters was all on increment patterns in bivalves and I got them sussed but these squid........................!!
J
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Hey, related to the discussion about autophagy, have a look at the 6th item on this "Fast Facts" article:
http://wildcat.arizona.edu/papers/96/127/01_11.html
Wonder what the source was for this? Not Steve or T, it would seem!
Of course, when such a statement appears in the same article with the statement "Butterflies taste with their feet," it's less of a scientific report and more of a "hey, get me another beer if you could... and did you know...?" type of publication.
Just thought you'd find the reference as amusing as I did...
http://wildcat.arizona.edu/papers/96/127/01_11.html
Wonder what the source was for this? Not Steve or T, it would seem!
Of course, when such a statement appears in the same article with the statement "Butterflies taste with their feet," it's less of a scientific report and more of a "hey, get me another beer if you could... and did you know...?" type of publication.
Just thought you'd find the reference as amusing as I did...
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you would expect more than that from a college newspaper?
as for the town of dildo, its mentioned in search for the giant squid since its residents erected a (fiberglass i think) statue/model of architeuthis....trivia, beer and sexual content is a tried-and-true way of keeping young adults attention...
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I'm still leaning toward the noncalcareous--shark cartilage? Whale balleen?
I must say that I am bowled over that this forum reveals just how many ceph and GS enthusiasts are out there, and how these simple tools allow us to interact with the people at the forefront of the science. Incredible!
where do I sign up for stomach dissection duty?
I must say that I am bowled over that this forum reveals just how many ceph and GS enthusiasts are out there, and how these simple tools allow us to interact with the people at the forefront of the science. Incredible!
where do I sign up for stomach dissection duty?
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So where are we with respect to this topic? I just spent the last hour reading all these posts and subsequent links only to end up terribly confused. 
Guess that's what happens when us bankers get interested in Marine Biology. 
The pics are of an Archi's stomach contents, in which were found Archi tentacles? Which may or may not belong to the squid itself, suggesting some sort of Archi-canibalism? What else was found in there? Anything of note? Are we still waiting for Steve and Kat to devilge more info on this topic or are they WAY too preoccupied with work on the Colossal? This is a phenominally interesting post (however WAY over my head) and I'm just looking for someone to "dumb it down" for me.
Someone care to spell it out for us laymen? Until someone is kind enough to, I'll go back to the beginning and read it again.
Matt
Guess that's what happens when us bankers get interested in Marine Biology. The pics are of an Archi's stomach contents, in which were found Archi tentacles? Which may or may not belong to the squid itself, suggesting some sort of Archi-canibalism? What else was found in there? Anything of note? Are we still waiting for Steve and Kat to devilge more info on this topic or are they WAY too preoccupied with work on the Colossal? This is a phenominally interesting post (however WAY over my head) and I'm just looking for someone to "dumb it down" for me.
Someone care to spell it out for us laymen? Until someone is kind enough to, I'll go back to the beginning and read it again.
Matt
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"Squid can commit suicide by eating their own tentacles."
Jigga-WHAT?!?!
It'd be nice to have a source for that little factoid.
Yes, a basic summary of this thread would be: In dissecting a giant squid we discovered much semi-digested material in the stomach caecum, unusual firstly in that previous reports of Architeuthis' diet have been from trace prey items only, because the gut is almost always completely empty; and secondly, if you follow the photographs and guesses, in that we found sucker rings / fragments from representative parts (carpus, manus, dactylus) of a whole Architeuthis tentacle club. Much speculation and many further questions ensue.
Helpful?
Jigga-WHAT?!?!
It'd be nice to have a source for that little factoid.
Yes, a basic summary of this thread would be: In dissecting a giant squid we discovered much semi-digested material in the stomach caecum, unusual firstly in that previous reports of Architeuthis' diet have been from trace prey items only, because the gut is almost always completely empty; and secondly, if you follow the photographs and guesses, in that we found sucker rings / fragments from representative parts (carpus, manus, dactylus) of a whole Architeuthis tentacle club. Much speculation and many further questions ensue.
Helpful?
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Tintenfisch said:
Couldnt that be Squida-What?
And who I'm rollin with huh? D. gigas Uh-huh-uh-uhh-uhh-uhh
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Should've seen that one... sorry, it's a slow morning.
Of course, I should have said 'Giga-what?!'
[Sigh]
Of course, I should have said 'Giga-what?!'
[Sigh]
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no worries...let those of us that cant contribute the knowledge contribute the (attempts at) smart comments...
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