blue ring octo venom

[Reptiboy]

im sure uve all gone over this enough but i was hoping u guys could fill me in on it since im doin a project on em for school

 

[Tintenfisch]

You're right - try searching 'blue ring' and 'venom' on the forums. The toxin itself is called tetrodotoxin (TTX) so you will get more specific results if you search for that.

I suggest starting with Neogonodactylus' summary on The Cephalopod Page.

Good luck!

 

[Jean]

BR toxin is deadly and related to tetrodotoxin (like a puffer fish). The saliva contains maculotoxin (the tetrodotoxin look alike!), 5-hydroxytryptamine, hyaluronidase, tyramine, histamine, tryptamine, octopamine, taurine, acetylcholine, and dopamine.

The maculotoxin blocks sodium channels, causing motor paralysis and sometimes respiratory arrest leading to cardiac arrest due to a lack of oxygen. The toxin is created by bacteria in the salivary glands of the octopus.

There is no anti venom and treatment requires that the patient be placed on a respirator until the venom is flushed from the body. Tetrodotoxin poisoning can result in the victim being fully aware of his/her surrounds but unable to breathe. So you need to carry out CPR even if the victim is not responding..........they could still be alive!

The blue-ringed octopus is currently the most toxic known sea creature, it carries enough poison to kill 26 adult humans within minutes.

Nasty stuff!!

J

 

[monty]

I don't have time for a big post, but a few pointers that may help:

The part of blue ring venom that is toxic to humans (there may be other components) is commonly called TTX (tetrodotoxin.) It's the same toxin that is found in puffer fish and in a species of newt (? or is it salamander?), but in all these animals, it's actually produced by symbiotic bacteria. It's method of action is to bind to the voltage-gated sodium channels in nerve axons that are an important part of the system to send "action potentials" or "spikes" down the long part of the nerve (unlike wires, nerves actively propagate the signals). The TTX blocks these channels and essentially shuts down the animal's nervous system. In humans, the heart survives this, and the brain and spinal cord are protected by the blood-brain barrier, which TTX doesn't cross, but all of the peripheral nervous system can be shut down by TTX in the bloodstream (where the octo bit and injected it into the blood, or from the stomach for someone who ate Fugu or something.) In particular, that means that the nerves can't tell the muscles to breathe, so respiration stops. Fortunately, TTX only binds to these channels for around 12-24 hours, so if the person is put on a respirator, they can be kept alive for a while and recover. Unfortunately for that person, the brain is still working fine (because of the blood-brain barrier) so they're often conscious, aware, and alert, but can't breathe, talk, or move.

I'd suggest googling for TTX to find more information (including the full name). There are good articles on blue-rings on the cephalopod page, too, including this one: http://www.thecephalopodpage.org/bluering1.php

another good google search might be "hapalochlaena"

 

[monty]

BR toxin is deadly and related to tetrodotoxin (like a puffer fish). The saliva contains maculotoxin (the tetrodotoxin look alike!), 5-hydroxytryptamine, hyaluronidase, tyramine, histamine, tryptamine, octopamine, taurine, acetylcholine, and dopamine.

Wikipedia says "Tarichatoxin and maculotoxin were shown to be identical to tetrodotoxin in 1964 and 1978, respectively." -- but it's wikipedia, so who knows if it's right, but I'm pretty sure I'd read that elsewhere. Did that turn out to be wrong, and maculotoxin is a bit different chemically? I know the mechanism of action is the same...

 

[cthulhu77]

Half of the problem is that many researchers are still using gas chromatographic analysis, which is spotty at best...and getting different results with testing. Once they can nail down some of the more fluid components, there might be some cohesive ideas coming out of the venom labs.

 

[sorseress]

I'm hoping that your school project doesn't include actually having a blue ring.

 

[cthulhu77]

Well, it would certainly make for some interesting LD 50 tests...

"ouch!"

Thump.

 

[Reptiboy]

no no no it doesnt, tho maybe id get extra credit for "demonstrating" the capabilities of the venom on a particular student i dont like jk jk...

 

[Jean]

Wikipedia says "Tarichatoxin and maculotoxin were shown to be identical to tetrodotoxin in 1964 and 1978, respectively." -- but it's wikipedia, so who knows if it's right, but I'm pretty sure I'd read that elsewhere. Did that turn out to be wrong, and maculotoxin is a bit different chemically? I know the mechanism of action is the same...

Quite likely! Chemistry was never my strong suit, so I was hedging my bets by calling it a TTX look alike

J

 

[Animal Mother]

no no no it doesnt, tho maybe id get extra credit for "demonstrating" the capabilities of the venom on a particular student i dont like jk jk...

hahahahahaha, that's so wrong... but so funny.

 

[Neogonodactylus]

Let's just say that the characterization of blue-ring venom is a mess. Becky Williams, a graduate student in my lab, has been working on this problem for a couple of years and all I can say is "It ain't easy". First of all, there are several species of blue-ring and we aren't even sure that they all have TTX. Second, some of the earlier studies misidentified the species of blue-ring they were studying. Third, it appears that some of the attempts to culture TTX producing bacteria from the posterior salivary glands of blue-rings had serious contamination issues. Fourth, it is quite possible that not all populations of blue-rings have the same levels of TTX - or that TTX persists in animals maintained in the lab.

If you want to know how complicated these issues are, take a look at some of the papers by the Brodie's on the arms race between TTX containing salamanders and their garter snake predators. (Becky Williams did her Masters using this system which is how she ended up in my lab.) There are huge differences in TTX concentrations from population to population and in garter snake resistance. Given that there are more species involved, the story may be even more complicated in blue-rings.

Roy

But don't get over confident handling these guys. Most probably contain a lethal dose of TTX and even handling a dead one can give you a buzz (which I have personally experienced.)

Roy

 

[cthulhu77]

Oh no Roy ! Now, instead of licking toads...

 

[Reptiboy]

But don't get over confident handling these guys. Most probably contain a lethal dose of TTX and even handling a dead one can give you a buzz (which I have personally experienced.)

Roy

ooh i dont plan on ever ever handling a blue ring, my lfs gets them in evry once inn awhile but i keep a good 3ft away from the glass. if i planned on dying an early death i would go jump in a pond

 

[Reptiboy]

okk i have done plenty of research and my report is almost done, almost done. i still need to know the other name of the toxin aside from TTX, its the one for killing prey