[Featured]: Netflix Documentary: My Octopus Teacher

[pkilian]

I agree with a lot of the points raised here. I think that you can either watch the video through a critical, science focused lens (like points that @TheSeeker raised about water clarity during filming, and @qiazopus said about gathering a film crew before having the eye opening octopus experience) Or you can watch it through a less critical, story-teller lens. I think that both aspects of critique are important.

My opinions of the film are mixed and I think that's okay. I'm happy that cephs are a hot conversation topic, and I hope that people who watch this video will feel inspired to donate and support oceanic restoration and conservation. I don't, however, want octopuses and cephalopods to be put on a pedestal as some sort of genius creatures that science can't hope to explain, and I also don't want these animals to be fantasized into some kind of mystical life-changing creature that they aren't...

It's a great documentary either way!

 

[dleo4590]

I agree with a lot of the points raised here. I think that you can either watch the video through a critical, science focused lens (like points that @TheSeeker raised about water clarity during filming, and @qiazopus said about gathering a film crew before having the eye opening octopus experience) Or you can watch it through a less critical, story-teller lens. I think that both aspects of critique are important.

My opinions of the film are mixed and I think that's okay. I'm happy that cephs are a hot conversation topic, and I hope that people who watch this video will feel inspired to donate and support oceanic restoration and conservation. I don't, however, want octopuses and cephalopods to be put on a pedestal as some sort of genius creatures that science can't hope to explain, and I also don't want these animals to be fantasized into some kind of mystical life-changing creature that they aren't...

It's a great documentary either way!

I think I missed something....who's putting them on a pedestal? I don't know where that comes from...but you do realize this is a cephalopod group? I don't think anyone here has implied that take away from the film but it's apparent there are some very strong critiques here, which is a little surprising. It's no different than Planet Earth, except the narrator is also a part of the story in which he's telling.

 

[tonmo]

I think I missed something....

It's fairly apparent from the documentary's narrative that the octopus is being highly revered here, with no or little bounds. Yes, we all love cephs, but I think the observation here is that the content could have been a bit more pragmatic in spots, or at least the doc overall could have been a bit more balanced with the dry science. Kudos to them for producing a compelling program and easing in some scientific context and some discussion of species -- it's a good (great) thing to have a ceph doc with broad appeal. The octopus is certainly presented with a dramatic mystique. A truer documentary might have offered more pragmatic explanations for behaviors, etc. If I recall, anthropomorphism concepts are not discussed or considered in this documentary -- it probably would have been insightful, to temper the imagination just a bit, and help us focus more on the true wonderment of their apparent cognition, in a more measured way. One moment that stood out for me (my only small "cringe" moment) was the silly music being played while Craig narrated that the octopus looked like "an old woman walking down the street..." Fun, but a missed opportunity I think.

but it's apparent there are some very strong critiques here,

It's a great documentary either way!

?

The critiques are quite mild, I think -- I believe everyone here (myself included) has classified it as "great!" Good discussion, though.

 

[pkilian]

The octopus is certainly presented with a dramatic mystique. A truer documentary might have offered more pragmatic explanations for behaviors, etc. If I recall, anthropomorphism concepts are not discussed or considered in this documentary -- it probably would have been insightful, to temper the imagination just a bit, and help us focus more on the true wonderment of their apparent cognition, in a more measured way.

This is exactly the point I was trying to make. I appreciate any time in the spotlight that cephalopods receive. Documentaries like this and the articles that are written about them are excellent ways to get people interested in cephalopods and other marine life. As a scientist, I can only hope that people are also interested in cephalopods because of their inherent value as animals that are deserving of study and conservation, and not just because they have personalities or make friendships with people.

My personal take is that people should be invested in funding and supporting the conservation of all animal species, whether or not they have human-like traits and intelligence.

Again, this was a wonderful documentary. I appreciate that our favorite animals are getting some time in the spotlight. I also think fair critique from enthusiasts who are knowledgeable about the topic is important for film makers to continue to make high quality content that is grounded in science.

 

[dleo4590]

I said what I said, because a lot have commented on the fact that in the film he mentioned he went diving alone when there was obviously a crew or at least another cameraman, how and why is that being an important take away??? I'm glad that they decided to use an octopus as the main subject but it's not the only relevant creature, obviously. I was deliberating starting the thread myself, but waited and sure enough you @tonmo posted about it so I assumed it was open for all viewpoints and perspectives.

I was wanting to know where @pkilian is coming from with his comments of octopus being put on a pedestal etc. It seemed like a very specific and pointed assumption, he wasn't hesitant about tagging people he agreed with but if he has an issue with someone he should also mention them too, which he didn't name drop, so a very passive confrontation if you ask me. It's anyone's right to believe what they believe, if what he's saying is someone's take away, they shouldn't be criticized for it. No one else made statements like that here. Someone just always has to take the inclusivity off of things by making a declaration like that. (If that's anyone's belief, I'm standing up for you.)

This is the very reason I was skeptical about joining an online forum and I didn't sign up right away but the fact that it came from a moderator doesn't leave a good taste in my mouth. I'm over the drama and this group was really not that helpful to me, if I'm being completely honest. It was nice to engage and share with others but I see it caters to only like minded individuals which is the flaw of so many forums/groups.

 

[tonmo]

Sorry @dleo4590 if this forum is not right for you; no hard feelings here and of course you are free to participate, or not; that is your prerogative.

To clarify my views (which is a reflection of this forum's policy), to the degree it's helpful for anyone -- all reasonable views are obviously welcome by this forum and the evidence for that is very clear in the full discussion above. Interpreting non-actions (not tagging) as passive-aggressive behavior is a bridge too far, and not helpful in an otherwise productive conversation about the documentary.

Remarkably, everyone in the thread has professed appreciation for the documentary, yet it's important to note that appreciation for the documentary is not necessary here. It's a ceph forum, and the primary prerequisite is that we talk about cephs -- we don't require any specific emotions or causes (although we do promote their well-being in a general sense). So, if someone wants to blast the documentary as garbage, I have absolutely zero problem with that. It's the point of a forum -- friendly discussion and sharing of opinions around specified subject matter.

I can assure you, based solely on the contents of this thread, that there were no personal attacks levied here, and the mild criticisms offered were directed at the documentary, not at any individuals.

 

[tonmo]

My personal take is that people should be invested in funding and supporting the conservation of all animal species, whether or not they have human-like traits and intelligence.

Agreed - anything that raises our consciousness and wisdom about this planet, its cohabitants, and the universe at large is one of the great gifts of being a cognitive creature!

 

[cephjedi]

I haven't finished watching it, but I echo a lot of the points Tonmo made (Hey buddy! whazzzap!?! ) a lot of the shots were clearly set up in aquaria and there were clearly several different octopuses featured just in the first 30 minutes. That's not a criticism: it's to be expected for TV. I had a lot of trouble swallowing the claim that he found "his" octopus by using Maori tracking methods underwater, over a half mile? I bet a finger he didn't notice 35 other vulgaris dens along the way.

It's been a while since I was in the water, but I noticed anecdotally that older, larger vulgaris's are more likely to interact with a friendly diver. I'd also bet another finger that, under the magnifying glass of science, Caribbean vulgaris are strikingly different from S. African ones. There's a bounty of ecological research available for budding cephalophiles just untangling all the world's "O. vulgarises" and determining how many subspecies that group really has and how they're different.

Either way, it appears the producers did their homework, and portrayed the octopus realistically.

 

[tonmo]

Hey, @cephjedi! -- great to hear from you, and glad you are watching it - not sure how far you got but it's really good end-to-end. And try to be a bit more careful with your fingers, they are extremely valuable for everyday activities!

 

[Thales]

I loved this film.
The minimal anthropomorphism while talking about the feelings one can get when interacting with octos was refreshing and resonated in a way that felt real to me and reflects my experience with these animals in tanks. I believed his story, and have no problem with the pick up shots - they did a great job of having him tell the story from the house, rather than trying to make is seem like it was all being captured as it happened. I also have no problem believing that a lot of the shots were by him, both holding the camera and placing a camera and then coming back to be in the shot (I have done that some). If he can breath hold for 4 minutes (I bet he can do longer) a lot of the shots make me feel like they were by him.
I love that I can feel good about sharing this film in a way that I couldn't with some recent books on octos.
I have had a bit of shit few years and am coming out of it, so his story resonated with me in a big way.
I love all of you TONMO. It's nice to say hello!

 

[Thales]

Oh yeah, and our LPSO paper is in there onscreen!

 

[tonmo]

Oh yeah, and our LPSO paper is in there onscreen!

saw that!!

 

[Jmanrow]

An excellent movie! In "My Octopus Teacher", Craig seems very comfortable freediving without a wetsuit in 8°C (46.4°F) water. Most divers would find that uncomfortable without a 1/4 inch (6.35mm) wetsuit or a drysuit. He must be very disciplined to handle that. I would think there would be a danger of hypothermia. Any comments on this?

 

[pkilian]

All I can say is that when I worked at NEAq in the penguin exhibit the water was about 60F and we wore 6 mil 2 piece suits (so we'd get 12 mil on our torso) and that was still plenty cold. I was under the impression that hypothermia set in even as warm as 55F without proper protections and extended duration in the water.

 

[DHF8]

Late to this conversation, but yes, this was a moving wee documentary film, and very interesting to see cross-kingdom pedagogy (or should that be podagogy?) play out this way. My friend and I are currently working on a long form piece about the appearance/role of cephalopods on streaming platforms like Netflix more broadly. The Pacific Octopus in Jessica Jones, and the interdimensional octopus 'Old Night' in The OA are but two of many many many more I could name drop here.