- Joined
- Aug 17, 2007
- Messages
- 18
inteligence when undefined is unmeasureble, still i think many of us have a 'gut feeling' of what we find as inteligent, if it reminds us of us it's inteligent?
Take a dog, to perspectives; some se dog as being smart because the person watching thinks he/she can se the emotional state of a dog happy, angry, jealus and so on, and can bribe it to do tricks. No one can tap into the dogs awareness and do a reading of how big the spark of awereness may be, or even if that correlates with inteligens(what ever it is), it's still a subjective judgement.
A person watching the same dog my se the dog a being stupid, because of the limitations a dog may show to have, for example lack of speach, or looking a the pointed finger rather then looking in the direktion of the finger, og barking at the ball you threw at it, and not barking at you, the lack of understandig the human term causality. So this second individual may regard the dog as being stupid, because unwittingly the dog is being compared to a human. So one could state that the dog is smart enough to seem stupid, because it is smart enougt to be seen in the reference frame of man.
I think few whould compare a mantis to a human in the same way as a dog(wittingly or unwittingly), and could be labeled as smart becouse it (maybe by cance) found a weak spot in a shell a smashed it there(i'm gettig a spec. tank for a peacock, absolutly facinating animal!).
As of brains and designs, if one taks sharks and birds, sharks have quite an impressive brain to total bodymass ratio.
White sharks employ different hunting tecniques depending on what and whare they eat, jumping out of water to cath seal near cape town but doing it close to nowhare else, lerned or inherited?
Birds, compleatly different brain design compared to mamals, they have no cortex, but have 'islands' or nerve cell clusters trough out the brain with the axons and dendrites stiking out(read it in illustreret videnskab).
Crows and ravens are by eksperiment known to pic a peace og steal thread form a wide range of materials, of appropriate leangth, and bending it into a hook and picking out food, never being shown any of this. Or as stated in the journal nature 22. feb. 2007(or just the podcast)how a scrubjay can remember and plan for the future(she mentions a the cortex thoug, conflicts whith brain sructure i described before, maybe they have both?), there is also the naked scientists podcast(06.05.07) on annimal behavior.
A brain is the most energy hungry organ per mass, so if it's big, it eats a lot! if it eats a lot, it better make up for it in other ways, in other words it's being used for information processing that in the past helped your parrents to survive long enough to conceive you, and the familiy line of smarty pants' goes on for now... hopfully to make kids with other smarty pants, and making even smarter kids and so on... unless the evirment dictates that streangth or some other trait be more faverable...
Is pure information processing potetial equevelant to inteligence? does the information processing have to envolve the usige of stored data to be inteligence, in other words, do you have to remember to be smart?
I personally find my selv looking at the processing potential when trying to evaluate the inteligens of somthing, i whuold not call a brittle star inteligent though it probably is of ancient design...
I think it is much in the eyes of the beholder. I do not personaly know what to make of the mirror experiment other then i find very facinating, i whould like to se a broader set of different experiments replicated on a larger number of specimens, before drawing anything that resembles a conclusion.
It was kinda more coherent in my head, and excuse my spelling, engilsh is my third language, not that i'm much better at spelling in danish or polish, im better at numbers at greek letters . I think i use to many commas for english...
Take a dog, to perspectives; some se dog as being smart because the person watching thinks he/she can se the emotional state of a dog happy, angry, jealus and so on, and can bribe it to do tricks. No one can tap into the dogs awareness and do a reading of how big the spark of awereness may be, or even if that correlates with inteligens(what ever it is), it's still a subjective judgement.
A person watching the same dog my se the dog a being stupid, because of the limitations a dog may show to have, for example lack of speach, or looking a the pointed finger rather then looking in the direktion of the finger, og barking at the ball you threw at it, and not barking at you, the lack of understandig the human term causality. So this second individual may regard the dog as being stupid, because unwittingly the dog is being compared to a human. So one could state that the dog is smart enough to seem stupid, because it is smart enougt to be seen in the reference frame of man.
I think few whould compare a mantis to a human in the same way as a dog(wittingly or unwittingly), and could be labeled as smart becouse it (maybe by cance) found a weak spot in a shell a smashed it there(i'm gettig a spec. tank for a peacock, absolutly facinating animal!).
As of brains and designs, if one taks sharks and birds, sharks have quite an impressive brain to total bodymass ratio.
White sharks employ different hunting tecniques depending on what and whare they eat, jumping out of water to cath seal near cape town but doing it close to nowhare else, lerned or inherited?
Birds, compleatly different brain design compared to mamals, they have no cortex, but have 'islands' or nerve cell clusters trough out the brain with the axons and dendrites stiking out(read it in illustreret videnskab).
Crows and ravens are by eksperiment known to pic a peace og steal thread form a wide range of materials, of appropriate leangth, and bending it into a hook and picking out food, never being shown any of this. Or as stated in the journal nature 22. feb. 2007(or just the podcast)how a scrubjay can remember and plan for the future(she mentions a the cortex thoug, conflicts whith brain sructure i described before, maybe they have both?), there is also the naked scientists podcast(06.05.07) on annimal behavior.
A brain is the most energy hungry organ per mass, so if it's big, it eats a lot! if it eats a lot, it better make up for it in other ways, in other words it's being used for information processing that in the past helped your parrents to survive long enough to conceive you, and the familiy line of smarty pants' goes on for now... hopfully to make kids with other smarty pants, and making even smarter kids and so on... unless the evirment dictates that streangth or some other trait be more faverable...
Is pure information processing potetial equevelant to inteligence? does the information processing have to envolve the usige of stored data to be inteligence, in other words, do you have to remember to be smart?
I personally find my selv looking at the processing potential when trying to evaluate the inteligens of somthing, i whuold not call a brittle star inteligent though it probably is of ancient design...
I think it is much in the eyes of the beholder. I do not personaly know what to make of the mirror experiment other then i find very facinating, i whould like to se a broader set of different experiments replicated on a larger number of specimens, before drawing anything that resembles a conclusion.
It was kinda more coherent in my head, and excuse my spelling, engilsh is my third language, not that i'm much better at spelling in danish or polish, im better at numbers at greek letters . I think i use to many commas for english...