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hemocyanin/copper question

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If the hemocyanin molecule has copper in it, do cephalopods need a source of copper to replenish their blood? I was thinking that we need iron so that we don't become anemic and iron is part of the hemoglobin molecule. Does it have something to do that we have blood cells and cephalopods don't?

Just wondering since copper is toxic to many marine inverts and crustaceans and cephs have hemocyanin...

Probably just me thinking too much again...
 

Jean

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I would assume that what they need they can extract from the environment, but too much is bad!!! Even in humans we can get iron overload disease!

J
 

monty

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cuttlegirl said:
If the hemocyanin molecule has copper in it, do cephalopods need a source of copper to replenish their blood? I was thinking that we need iron so that we don't become anemic and iron is part of the hemoglobin molecule. Does it have something to do that we have blood cells and cephalopods don't?

Just wondering since copper is toxic to many marine inverts and crustaceans and cephs have hemocyanin...

Probably just me thinking too much again...

I've been wondering about that, too. I found some references at some point I posted in another thread... I don't think I found any solid answers, but see http://www.tonmo.com/community/index.php?threads/4034/&highlight=copper
 

Nancy

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I remember looking it up once. Seawater does have a very slight amount of copper in it, much less than in our drinking water, for instance.

Nancy
 
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Okay okay okay... bad joke back there. I doubt that hemocyanin has a per capita huge amount of copper anyway. Ceph blood isn't as efficient an O2 carriers as hemoglobin, and this may be due to using copper as the main metal.

You know what's really interesting? Some chitons actually use hemoglobin.
 

monty

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Fujisawas Sake;85445 said:
You know what's really interesting? Some chitons actually use hemoglobin.

:shock: sheesh! You come back in town, and within an hour you've hit me with 2 "everything you know is wrong" facts!
 

monty

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Fujisawas Sake;85449 said:
Kid you not.. Hemoglobin in their foot muscles. Wonders never cease, eh?

The questions that came to mind (which I'm just cut-and-pasting from my livejournal blathering about it) once I had found my jaw on the floor were:

This presumably implies a lot of evolutionary weirdness: did hemoglobin arise before the mollusc/vertebrate divergence? Did the chitons somehow steal the gene for it from vertebrates? did it develop independently? Why don't other molluscs use it? It's been theorized that one reason fish outcompeted cephalopods was that they had better O2 transport via hemoglobin; if molluscs can use it, it seems like there should have been immense pressure for fast molluscs like cephs to use it, while an almost-sessile critter like a chiton seems like an unlikely candidate for needing better oxygen transport in its blood... of course, it appears that some cephs that use hemocyanin have abilities to live active lives in very low oxygen content water layers, so probably they have done some trick to improve hemocyanin or at least work around its limitations.

Apparently, hemoglobin is much more prevalent than I thought in non-insect invertebrates-- see http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/content/abstract/201/8/1085
it's in bivalves, too, apparently.
 

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