Ethics of octopi in captivity?

[SabrinaR]

This should be a very interesting discussion come october and that would be awesome to be able to set up a webcam so those that are unable to attend can participate.

This would be AWESOME! I am so sad that I am unable to join you all.

 

[tonmo]

There is a good possibility of that - there would likely be a nominal access fee ($5), with the understanding that it'd be a fairly raw feed... but for $15 and the price of a room, you can be with us in person! I'm really looking forward to getting together with old friends and new, in person.

BUT, I do understand that not everyone can make it... hence will make an effort to broadcast remote - should be much better quality than TONMOCON III, which was a fail, but was no charge - I'd expect this one to actually work this time - audio and visual -- we may even take a question / comment or two from the chat room.

 

[neurobadger]

I am all in favor of setting up a webcam to take questions from the chatroom. I'll let you know when we get to the question session and you can bring the chat room computer up to the table.

 

[Joe-Ceph]

Will the audio and/or video from any (all?) of the Tonmocon talks be available after the talks, maybe via podcast? It would be valuable to preserve that knowledge, and have it as an archived resource on Tonmo.

 

[tonmo]

I doubt all, but will certainly have some highlights as in years past. Will be best to come in person...

Sent via Tapatalk on Android

 

[Pennyworth]

I know this is an older thread, so I hope it is OK to reply to it with my thoughts on these matters.

I have no problem with keeping any pet or farming any animal for food. Humans are at the top of the food chain, we evolved to eat meat...we just do it more efficiently now. As long as the animals are treated fairly which most often is not the case, I have no issue with it. Some pets are the result of a mutually beneficially relationship thousands of years old, and we would still have those pets were humans in the wild, as the case used to be with wolves.

I'm unsure about the comments being skeptical of the intelligence of octopuses...certainly its possible that like with what happens with cats there are some instinctual behaviors being mistaken for intelligence....but there is too much evidence of actual problem solving, learning and reasoning. If I recall correctly it is considered one of the few animals that may displays evidence of meta-cognition.

Not to mention the numerous anecdotes of them displaying what could foreseeable only be intelligence. They certainly seem to compete or outclass many vertebrates long considered intelligent.

As for keeping them in a tank..same with any other pet, I see no reason it shouldn't be kept for entertainment and learning purposes....I want to make sure my tank is a nice place for it, but I have no problem keeping it in captivity, where it (assuming I do everything right) it would very possibly live a healthier, happier life. Watching people eat an octopus tends to make me uncomfortable though, especially when it's live.

 

[anothersquid]

Humans are at the top of the food chain,

You have not been camping in Yukon or Alaska in the winter... Or the jungly bits of Australia...

 

[DWhatley]

@anothersquid we can/do make weapons and alter environments to prevail over the larger animals (not saying we SHOULD). I vote bacteria as the top predator.

 

[anothersquid]

I was more thinking about the observation that we are top of the food chain... When I was in Oz in 2012, 5 people were killed by salt water crocodiles (killed = polite for "eaten") in the 2 weeks I was there. They consider that to be relatively normal.

Camping up north, even with a group, you carry rifles because... well... from the perspective of a bear or a handful of wolves, humans are slow and made of tasty, high-fat meat.

But you are very right... Bacteria win the game

 

[Pennyworth]

You have not been camping in Yukon or Alaska in the winter... Or the jungly bits of Australia...

Well, I kind of have. I'm from very close to the jungly bits of Australia and before I settled in NYC I spent almost 8 years basically backpacking...been to 38 countries. Much time in deserts, cities, jungles etc, even a few weeks in the middle of the Amazon

My reasoning for us being at the top of the food chain is as DWhatley says...we can alter environment, make weapons etc. We may well lose a one on one fight with a lion or bear, but a group of humans will prevail. We are the only animal with sufficient reasoning ability to improvise strategy and make tools at the level we do. To me, that is why we are firmly in the lead.

Oh, how I wish I had fixed my spelling mistakes in my previous post :|

 

[DWhatley]

@JingoFresh, you CAN edit your own posts but finding the "Edit Button" is easy to miss. Look below the post where it shows the poster's name and date. To the right should be the word edit. This is clickable even though there is no indication. An edit window will popup and you can modify or add to any of your own posts.

I use a free spell checker called Speckie that saves me from myself frequently.

 

[Pennyworth]

@JingoFresh, you CAN edit your own posts but finding the "Edit Button" is easy to miss. Look below the post where it shows the poster's name and date. To the right should be the word edit. This is clickable even though there is no indication. An edit window will popup and you can modify or add to any of your own posts.

I use a free spell checker called Speckie that saves me from myself frequently.

I know I can edit, but it seems the edit window is 5 minutes or so. I didn't notice them until after

I use Firefox which has a built in spell checker that works great. In my case it wasn't actually misspellings, but mistyped words spelt correctly, which I guess can only be caught by proofreading.

 

[Gordman]

I believe the Simpsons said it best..

 

[tonmo]

I know I can edit, but it seems the edit window is 5 minutes or so. I didn't notice them until after

I use Firefox which has a built in spell checker that works great. In my case it wasn't actually misspellings, but mistyped words spelt correctly, which I guess can only be caught by proofreading.

This is true... 5 minute limit for Registered users... unlimited for Ceph Heads and Staff. This ensures that we don't have Registered users who register an account, post one note, then come back later to edit the original with spam links for search engines to pick up on, etc.

 

[DWhatley]

Thanks of for clarifying how that works, I'll copy to the tips and trick thread.