Hi and transfer of spermatophores?

[Deleted member 1446]

Hello everybody,

My name is Valter and I'm portuguese. I love cephalopods (from their taste to their biology) and have been around the site many times. I have taken a lot of good information from here but I had a question where I could not find a clear explication. It is about the transfer of spermatophores from the needham's sac to the hectocotylus in O. vulgaris. It probably have been discussed before but i did not find.
I think some people say that the hectocotylus goes in the mantle cavity and somehow acquire the spermatophores from the penis into the groove of the hectocotylus.
And then some others say that the spermatophores somehow migrate through the whole arm and ends up into the hectocotylus through a canal or something!

If someone has an idea or a good reference where it explains this part in detail, I would appreciate some help! All the things I have read never explains this part. It is always said the spermatophores is placed in the groove of hectocotylus such as M.J. Wells 1978.

Thank you my friends

Valter the Flying Rabbit

 

[Steve O'Shea]

there Valter the flying rabit

We managed to get this on video earlier this year for a vulgaris-like species here in NZ.

The spermatophores (this part we have to assume) are 'discharged' from the male's 'genital apparatus' (usually referred to as a penis) into his funnel (we have to assume this because we could not film inside the mantle); from the funnel they are directed to the base of the spermatophoral groove - the groove that extends the length of the male's hectocotylised arm. He inserts the terminal portion of this arm (the calamus and ligula) into the female's mantle; the spermatophore travelling down that arm is then guided into the female's mantle cavity, lodged or inserted wherever appropriate.

I'll check out refs to this effect for you shortly.
Steve

 

[Deleted member 1446]

Dr. Steve, thank you very much for the answer. So the hypothesis that spermatophores migrate from the needham's sac to the groove part of the hectocotylus through a canal thing is not true or is it the case for some species of cephalopods but not vulgaris-like octos?

Again thank you for answering

Valter the Flying Rabit

 

[Steve O'Shea]

It's true, although not directly from Needham's sac to the spermatophoral groove, but from this sac, through a distal vas deferens, then one of 'penis' proper or diverticulum, then funnel, then spermatophoral groove.

See http://www.tonmo.com/images/content/measure-fig5.gif and associated text.

 

[Feelers]

Hey Valter, you were right - it is spelt rabbit with two b's.

 

[Deleted member 1446]

It's true, although not directly from Needham's sac to the spermatophoral groove, but from this sac, through a distal vas deferens, then one of 'penis' proper or diverticulum, then funnel, then spermatophoral groove.

See http://www.tonmo.com/images/content/measure-fig5.gif and associated text.

Thanks Steve,

But I dont think you understood my previous question.
I understand your explanation that spermatophores goes from the needham's sac to the penis and then through the funnel where it is placed in the spermatophoral groove in the hevtocotylus. But what I was questioning was what somebody told me a few days ago:
"spermatophores migrate internally, inside the whole length of the 3rd right arm to end up in the spermatophoral groove without going outside of the body! I personnaly do not believe this but this guy seemed pretty sure. However he told me nothing was published on this...
I would be glad if you knew any references clearly stating what is happening.

Again thank you very much for your help

Valter the Flying RaBBit...(thanks Feelers )

 

[Steve O'Shea]

Nope, never heard of anything like that before, and do not believe it!!! Someone is leading you astray I'm afraid.

 

[Deleted member 1446]

Nope, never heard of anything like that before, and do not believe it!!! Someone is leading you astray I'm afraid.

yap, that's it. I believe and agreei with you. Your explication is much better and further you see that.

Two more things...Can you explain me the meaning of "arch and pump" in spermathoporic reaction ...I would be glad if you knew any references about everything this.

One more time, thanks Steve

 

[Steve O'Shea]

No, I'm afraid that you have me there, on both counts. If particularly interested in the spermatophore and its construction I should refer you to:

Hess, S.C. 1987. Comparative morphology, variability, and systematic applications of cephalopod spermatophores (Teuthoidea and Vampyromorpha). Unpublished PhD thesis, University of Miami.

This will fill you in on a little structural complexity in the group. As far as function is concerned, well, tough one and I can be of little assistance.
Cheers
O

 

[Deleted member 1446]

references

It's true, although not directly from Needham's sac to the spermatophoral groove, but from this sac, through a distal vas deferens, then one of 'penis' proper or diverticulum, then funnel, then spermatophoral groove.

See http://www.tonmo.com/images/content/measure-fig5.gif and associated text.

Dear Steve O'Shea

Hello, Can you send me the references and specie of your image to place in my work(http://www.tonmo.com/images/content/measure-fig5.gif )


Thanks Steve,

 

[Deleted member 1446]

References

Dear Steve O'Shea

Hello, Can you send me the references and specie of your image to place in my work(http://www.tonmo.com/images/content/measure-fig5.gif )


Thanks Steve, Valter