Ceph ? Non ceph - the mystery object !

Apr 8, 2004
here it is folks, a conical spiral Toarcien, Upper Liassic, Lower Jurassic up to 189.5mya (found inches from an Harpoceras & an Hildoceras bifrons
it's 40mm tall & 30mm dia at fat end.
nothing like it it any of my reference books except turrilites but they're of the Cretaceous so that's a :P
all yours !



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seems to be some sort of unfinished pastry by an belemite just learning the way around the kitchen....

by the way thats some nice grafitti in the background... :smile:
spartacus said:
I'll pen that in as a "not sure" then ?

Aha!! i looked up 'phragmocone' and it was described as a prehistoric attempt at a scone.....

sorry... i promise ill be quiet from here out....
spartacus said:
that's a good answer & I see where you're coming from.
do belemnites get that big ? & would it have coiled structure ?

Some belemnites did get that large, and some even larger. Megateuthis had a rostrum or guard at least 50cm long with the entire animal probably measuring at least three meters or so in length, though off the top of my head I don't know if those are found in your area. Mind you, if your 'mystery object' is spiralled and not a cone of concentric rings then it probably isn't a belemnite after all. Maybe a gastopod of some type?
Hi Spartacus

I pretty certain its not a scone (though I have been to some cafes where you'd begin to wonder!). my guess is belemnite phragmocone. Attached is a pic of one from the same age rocks of Ravenscar in Yorkshire.

All the best

cthulhu77 said:
I have attempted to eat british scones that were that hard...

I think you"ll find they were "Special export" scones you tried as our :usa: friends have evolved to have a larger & more numerous dentition than the original Anglo-European species. You may find you're perhaps a genetic throwback who still sports ickle native chops comme ça ! :heee:

Rejoice in your uniqueness & consider every weakness something special of your own ! :lol: (free scone to whoever names that song 1st)

Phil, you amaze me ! you've been bathing in Omega 3 again, haven't you !
3m belemnite, sheesh, I thought they were small fry - hence my education speeds forward towards the bright light of ultimate knowledge :notworth:

Jean, erudite one of the southern hemisphere :grad: me too but a shame if so as ceph is way cooler as we all know within these hallowed virtual walls. :roll:

Andy, (that Andy ?) you've snapped one already but tanned. Going on the abundantessness of Hildoceras of the Yorkshire area I believe we've solved the mystery in an impresssive short space of time :drwho:
My huge thanks to all involved, scones included - belemnitic phragmocone it is :notworth:

Not that Andy (if you were talking about me, that is...)
- Neuropteris/Andy was faster this time -
though I admit I opened the belemnite drawer, looked at a specimen that when found in situ had the phragmocone still attached, thought it in need of a bit of prep to be presentable and lost the race !
Oh well, damn perfectionism, here it comes (attached, err.. unattached ) !
It was found in the upper lias, tenuicostatum subzone of Runswick Bay, UK
and measures 8 inches / 21 cm in total ( 5" / 13 cm guard, 3"/ 8 cm phragmocone)

it was indeed your goodself of whom I spoke :biggrin2:
sorry the mystery object never got to your forum (well done on your promotion by the way) but the Tonmo crew did the biz.

I found what was a honking belemnite for me at Pakefield that I'd forgotten I had, must did it out & give it a scan as they tend to be the unsung heroes of fossildom compared to their curly cousins :ammonite:

Mystery object

Hi Spartacus, AndyS and all

Well, I've just taken this pic and then found t'other Andy has gone and put one on aswell. Never mind - here's another picture of a Grey Shale Belemnite/Phragmocone combo also from Runswick Bay area - they are quite commonly found together in that stratum and get to a fair size. Often the Phragomcone has a nodule around it and the guard sticks out of the end.

Both Andys, fantastic specimens, thanks for posting them.

Here's another phragmocone, this one slightly later dated to the Lower Oxfordian Age of the Jurassic (157-159m-ish) and came from somewhere in France. Unfortunately I don't know the species, though it could very possibly be Cylindroteuthis. It has been slightly crushed and measures about 30mm in length.


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