Zilch - Nautilus Pompilius

[gjbarord]

Is there a lot of quick algae buildup on the shell? What is the lighting like?

I'm not worried so much for the algae on the shell, but what and how the algae and/or light might affect the nautilus in general.

Greg

 

[DWhatley]

The build up on the shell is about what you see in post #41 (top of this page). The tank is lit with LED's that are not bright enough for corals and are reduced from the PC's I had in there originally. I do run LED red lights all night. He is somewhat active during parts of the day (I usually see him a bit active around 6:00 but only for a short time and then not until late at night/early AM. Sometimes he faces into the rock but often he just sleeps at the bottom of the tank so it does not appear he it attempting to hide from the light (there are fairly dark places he can get to). Interestingly, I have algae (red and green) on the walls and some new green (almost lime color - not hair algae) on the rocks but very little on the front glass. I have been adding dried seaweed for the pair of abalone in the tank. It slowly disappears but I am not sure why.

It appears that he may know I feed him. If he sees me approach the tank (when he is not sleeping) often he comes to the top. At times he stays there and seems to invite very gentle "petting" on his hood (he will even hold on to my hand with a tentacle or three but does not appear to be trying to pull my fingers to his mouth but rather uses them to anchor himself now that he is neutrally buoyant). He seems to like the "head scratching" and will stay there longer than I want to keep my hands in the tank (a few minutes). I never "trap" him so he can swim away when he wants to. I had wondered about if he could/would make that choice if the touch was negative but it was clear during his first "bath" (I used a soft long bristled bottle brush) that he will make it clear when he does not like something. I think the bristles may have touched some of the soft tissue and he squirted me with water and became very active. This second cleaning was quite different, he did not show signs of agitation and stayed at the top when I was done. I hope he continues to do well as it is much harder to attempt to get a feel for an animals likes and dislikes when you don't quite know what to look for to see posture changes.

His shell had grown about an inch since he has been in the tank (4 months). Definite brown stripes are on the new shell so he is still very much a juvenile. The new shell has a slight dulling film look to it that I think you mentioned is normal but I don't recall the proper name for it. I did not attempt cleaning on the new part and avoided the initial black line that was there when he came (most visible in post #40) The black line, however, seems to be getting smaller and I have a hard time finding the very long crack radiating from the center that concerned me). I will try to get a picture of the new growth next week. I can't tell anything about its thickness or if it is brittle but I don't see any chips.

I am still not comfortable with how much and how often to feed. His appetite seems to vary and I am afraid of giving him too much when it appears he wants more. A good quantity and frequency suggestion would be appreciated but I worry about following routines where the animals are short lived. Did you find out more from the Japanese aquarium that has the 5 year old hatchling?

 

[DWhatley]

I just finished Peter Ward's In Search of Nautilus and highly recommend it for anyone interested in nautiluses (a must read for keepers). Peter is a terrific story teller and the book is a time-line collection of nautilus discovery vignettes with a lot of adventure and personal view points. His technical book, Natural History of Nautilus is also still available (1987) but I have not yet purchase it.

 

[Nancy]

This is a very interesting thread. You've had real success keeping Zilch and the details of your interaction with him make good reading.

Nancy

 

[cuttlegirl]

D, I might have that book - if I do, you can borrow it, will search later this week.

 

[DWhatley]

Thanks for the offer CG but I think this is one I might like to own. The reason I have not bought it is my fear of it being over my head. I love Peter's casual writing style but am not sure if the textbook material will be beyond me. The book (and some of the blog/news interviews) that I did read was written for the lay person and is both entertaining and informative. The second book is written more as a text book and may be too far outside my biology education. Sadly, there is no preview or reviews to let me get a feel for its usability to me.

@cuttlegirl, my last cuttlefish is still with me. He is really showing his age but continues to eat live crabs well. When he goes would he be something you would want for the kids? I normally preserve in formalin but could simply freeze him and ship in dry ice (my Kroger has it) if you could use him but let me know soon. I held onto a few small octos when I sent my collection to Greg since I felt they were too small for his high school class. These were preserved in foramlin and then transferred to alcohol but are up for grabs should you want them as well.

 

[DWhatley]

I lost Zilch sometime overnight. I found one of the shrimp nibbling on his tentacles early this AM and was pretty sure this meant he had died but removed the shrimp and tried to get Zilch to respond. Sadly, there was no response of any kind and when I removed him from the tank, I could smell that he had been dead for a few hours. I plan to remove him from his shell and take photos to see/show what the whole animal looks like since I have never seen pictures of a nautilus behind the shell but for now he is in the freezer and it will take me awhile before I can face working with his body.

I have been remiss in reporting the white patch that has been spreading over his mantle for more than a month. After it was clear that it was spreading and not a scrape, I attempted adding tetracycline to his food for two weeks. It did not appear to harm him but did not stop the loss of the outer skin. Next I tried applying an antibiotic cream to the white patch. He started coming up to the surface and to the front when I approached the tank and it appeared the treatment may have made him more comfortable and possibly slowed the spread but he stopped eating more than a bite or two of his food this week. The only other thing that may have impacted or hastened his death is that I placed a couple of gorgonians in the tank and used reef epoxy. I don't use epoxy often and have not had a problem with it when I have but it does leave an odor on your hands. His not eating well began before I added the corals so I don't think there was a negative impact but wanted to record the event in full. Yesterday his eyes dilated and the black behind the hood stayed in full view (syymptoms @iammegangreen reported with the one the aquarium lost before the new arrivals). He was still alive by nightfall but very lethargic.

I was very attached to this animal and would like any guesses @robyn or @gjbarord might have on what would have caused its death. I don't know if I will try another as the one thing that haunts me is the thought that the problem could be vibro bacteria in the tank. It has been without major critters for a couple of years but the previous seahorses were from FL and they as well as many Caribbean critters are known to carry a strain of it that can be lethal animals without an immunity where most healthy Caribbeans have a resistance. I am hoping that thought is a bit far fetched but I don't know why he did not survive.

 

[cuttlegirl]

So sorry D,

I'm guessing that it was some type of infection on the hood, which can be common in Nautilus. I know how attached you were to Zilch.

 

[gjbarord]

Hi D,

I'll reply later today I hope. On a spring break trip in California. Third time seeing the Tentacles exhibit at Monterey in two weeks... YES!!

Sorry to hear about the nautilus.

Greg

 

[DWhatley]

@gjbarord, I would very much like your thoughts. Looking at the tank is upsetting and I would like to try one more but not without some thoughts on what may have caused the problem. I had hoped I would have him for several years and am devastated. However, this week is for the kids and to make sure they have the time of their lives and fall deeper in love with the ocean.

 

[tonmo]

Sorry to hear this @DWhatley

 

[iammegangreen]

On my last few nautilus when the hood was dropping & the eyes were dialated, the first symptom we saw was loss of color near the top of the hood. We sent swabs out for a bacterial culture & received a substantial result.

 

[DWhatley]

I definitely suspect an infection but don't know how I should have treated it. I have used tetracycline for octopuses but either the quantity was too small, he did not eat enough of the spiked food (resulting in same) or it was ineffective (what I had on hand was old so that may have also played a factor in not helping). The antibiotic cream did no better as far as I can tell. His eyes did not dilate and the black part behind his mantle did not show until his last day.

 

[gjbarord]

Hi D,

Going over the posts, the white patch, in my experience, has meant some type of infection and has been associated with fungal infections and parasitic infestations. We treated this a couple years ago, but did not write it up. I can look back through my notes. In the future, I would definitely have some tetracycline/oxytetracycline on hand as well as some iodine solution for these types of infections. Again, I'll go through my notes. What I do remember is that the hood lesion (what you wrote as mantle right?) took months, and months to heal using antibiotics and also antifungal cream. But the nautilus survived.

Working on a husbandry manual for zoos and aquariums. Not sure of its availability to the general public, but maybe there's a way to get something out there.

Greg

 

[DWhatley]

Thanks @gjbarord , I feel better that I made the right attempt but did not react quickly enough may have stopped treatment too soon. It did look like the antibiotic cream was having some effect in stopping or slowing the spread but I did not try it until over half the hood was impacted. The cream I use has a small amount of pain killer included and may have made him more comfortable based upon his coming to the front of the tank rather than hiding from me after I started applying it. I am also not sure he did not react to the epoxy since he died the day after I put the gorgonian in the tank.

I am going to try again. I hate buying one from a wholesaler but I choke up anytime I look at that tank. I am working with one of my food guys to get one of the ones he saw this week at his supplier.

Anything you can give me on treating problems would be extremely helpful. If it was parasitic, how would I know the difference or should I treat for both since I have no lab accessible? What would help that can be put in the display (I don't have a small chilled tank and the display is only for the naut) or did you use topical only.

Tetracycline/Oxytetracycline. Suggestions on quantity. I soaked his food in tetracycline (also have some old oxy on-hand but don't know if I should replace because of age). Should I also add it to the tank? I will buy new tetracycline as mine is quite old and may be very weak at this point. It did not seem to have any impact where I could see a difference when I used it on octopuses. I also have some (again old since this was on-hand for seahorses) gram-negative and gram-positive antibiotics(?) from that era. Useful? in tank or in food if yes.

Iodine. Would the iodine used for aquariums be appropriate or should I buy the type used for humans that is red? ADDITIONALLY, would it be beneficial to add a small amount to the water with each water change? I keep some on hand for crabs and shrimp but it is quite weak and I still use it sparingly.

Anti-fungal. Suggestions for an onhand cream? I know where to find human creams for athletes feet and jock itch (I suspect these are the same but have never checked the ingredients) but would they be effective for marine fungus. If not what do I need to find?

Cortisone. When the kids got finger infections, one of the doctor recommendations was to include using cortisone in the treatment (along with antibiotic cream). Any thoughts on this? I did not try it this time and hope not to have the issue again but want to be better prepared.