Zebra Octopus For Sale In The Bay Area (a good thing?)

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Thales

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Why did the Hog Island Boa drop in price within a year?
From what I have read it didn't take a year, but like 6 years, and the price drop was because the collected all the nice colored ones, and no one wanted to pay for the 'ugly' ones.
 

cthulhu77

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Not at all. I was there to witness the entire thing, being a reptile importer at the time.

The first arrivals were called "clouded boas" ( a misnomer, since the clouded is a different type), and then " pink clouded", then "Hogg Island"...when the exporters heard of the interest in the snake, they basically ravaged the wild population completely, and the price plummeted.

I guess if you are talking stocks and bonds it would be one thing, but I love snakes more than I do people, and this one has always really burned my tailfeathers. The animals were sold out. They lost due to our greed. They are virtually extinct.

Is this o.k. with you? I doubt it.
 

Thales

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Of course its not ok with me. I am not sure why you would even ask that question. Please remember that I am on your side, and it seems we just disagree on one point - does/can/has boycotting a species in the pet trade lead to a reduction in its collection?

I think this is a good discussion, and I would be happy to have my mind changed. I need a little more information.

In your experience, why did people stop buying the boas? Was it because the market was flooded, because people wanted to protect the wild populations, or for some other reason or reasons?

BTW, this is one of the only articles I can find that actually discusses the Hog Isle Boa in any detail:

http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/reptiles/Breed_Profiles.aspx?aid=1429&cid=3685&search=
 
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People have been causing the extinction or near extinction of animals for a long time. Sometimes it's because of fear and loathing (Mexican gray wolves, eastern panthers), sometimes it's because we "love" them ( or at least parts of them) to death, and sometimes it's because of food pressures. The two things they have in common however, are economic interests...someone is making money off their exploitation...and our apparent unwillingness or inability to do anything to stop it until it's too late. Very few governments will put ethical interests regarding animals ahead of the economic interests of their businessmen.
 
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cthulhu77;88378 said:
If you don't buy them, they won't sell them. The retailers can't afford to lose that much money.

I agree, but this statement seems like a goal that is unreachable. How does the decision of the .01% of aquarium hobbyists to boycott buying exotic animals at the stores affect the retailers in any financially significant way.


Something on a higher level then just boycotting is definetly needed

Lets explore other options..

So Even if we try to be more vocal of the reasons of boycotting and attempt to educate by picketing and handing out a leaflet at the LFS, it would only succeed in maybe (Big maybe) that the animal will not be purchased here. But like how for every 1 person that boycotts the purchase of the animal and there are 100s of other hobbyists that would not, this is still 1 store in 100s of stores that would pick up the animal from the wholesellers to sell it.

Unfortunately, the amount of time it would take to educate the masses enough for the retailers to lose enough money and stop buying the animals, would probably take much longer than the time for the animal to meet a similar fate as the Hog Island Boa.

I feel the phrase 'The gates have already been opened' is a very fitting description. For even my proposed solution of legislation would probably be too timely of a task to do good for the animal as well.

I think most here agree with you that these rare animals should not be so indiscriminately imported for the ornamental marine trade, but the disagreement seems to lie on a different level.

We all agree about the value of the animal on a large scale, but if an individual animal appears in the neighborhood, our differences in moral decisions seem to surface.

My reasons for choosing to purchase the animal under this situation are the following.

1. I do not believe that my decision to boycott the animals purchase would make the slightest difference in stopping the industry from collecting them.
2. I have experience and a setup that can offer a higher quality of life then most others.
3. I am probably fascinated with the animal. (We have to admit that its not all altruistic)

I know that not everyone is in agreement with this opinion and I may not be as morally strong as Greg, which is an admiral trait, but it is probable a better course of action to push the discussion towards solutions that may truelly stop the import of these animals. For even if all of us here was to jump on the bandwagon of boycotting, the problem will still remain.
 

Reptiboy

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cthulhu77;88420 said:
I love snakes more than I do people, and this one has always really burned my tailfeathers. The animals were sold out. They lost due to our greed. They are virtually extinct.

Is this o.k. with you? I doubt it.

spoken like a true brother...
 

cthulhu77

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Actually, you would be amazed at the power that the consumer has in deciding purchase issues on the importation level.

Talking to a fish importer yesterday, he bought a number of "zebra octopus", of which one survived shipment and was immediately taken by a local fish store.

This octopus has been ignored by the collectors before, because no one had an interest in them.

He placed a larger order, and the lfs wants as many as he can get.
 

Thales

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Supply and demand has two sides and they massage each other. Once the mutual massaging gets going, if either side slows down, the other side continues in the hopes that the slowing side will pick up the pace.
The gate got opened on the 'zebras' and LFS want to jump on that gravy train and all sides are furiously massaging away (whoo hoo three metaphors!).

Greg, would you take a look at my questions about the Hog Island Boa?
 

Colin

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What decision to take?

Namely the fact here is that this conversation is travelling between two threads at the same time.

I very rarely actually use my mod tools, but I think it is best if I link to the other thread about the ethics of keeping cephalopods and let it continue in just one place.

If this causes a problem, please email or PM me and perhaps we can split this thread or something?

To go to the other thread please click the link...

http://www.tonmo.com/community/index.php?threads/7233/

thanks
Colin
 
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