Wunderpus 3 journal

[Neogonodactylus]

Given the right type of informative program, I would favor the public display of these exotic animals. You can reach far more people, provide information that is perceived as "authoritative", and there is a perception that displayed animals are too exotic to be entertained by the hobbiest (most, anyway).

I've helped various museums and aquaria (including Cal Acad) over the years display blue-rings and did so with less concern that I was promoting keeping them in the home aquarium. It was easier to get across the message that they are dangerous and have no place in the home.

Roy

 

[Thales]

There is a decent chance this guy may end up on display at CAS - same goes for the flamboyant at my place now. I would much rather them be there than at my home.

 

[DWhatley]

I think that animals in an aquarium setting (or zoo) give a subtle, subconcious message that these animals are displayed here because they are not animals to be kept at the home.

 

[Thales]

Here is my new exotic ceph disclaimer:

If you are interested in keeping cephalopods please read the following:

Even experienced ceph keepers with mature tanks should think long and hard before obtaining this species. Their needs are resource intensive, specific, and not yet fully understood. Perhaps more importantly, the size and health of their wild populations is unknown.

Even the sharing of information, photos and video of these animals can be controversial. Some fear that detailed information and attractive photos may encourage inexperienced saltwater aquarists to obtain specimens. Personally, I believe that knowledge should be freely available, rather than hidden from view. I also believe that the admiration of a species can be of benefit to its preservation in the wild rather than its detriment. Furthermore, it is my hope that the information on the site will empower aquarists to make sound, rational decisions regarding the advisability of keeping these very difficult animals.

If you are interested in keeping cephalopods, there are several species that are easily available, better understood and much more inexpensive than wonderpus or flamboyant cuttlefish. Please do some reading on www.TONMO.com before purchasing any ceph, and look at things to think about before keeping a cephalopod link to the left.

 

[sedna]

For what it's worth, the information I've learned on Tonmo about the fragility of these animals is what lead me to "have the juice" to tell my LFS not to even try when one became available to them. I'm glad this information is easy to get to- all the reasons NOT to collect wunderpus or blue rings. If I ever come across one in a LFS, I'll know how to ID it, be educated enough to calmly explain the problem, and begin the process of begging the store to donate it to a proper facility. I've been following all the concerns various people on this thread, and their reasons. I just wanted to share that the knowledge I found here has kept at least one of these animals out of my favorite store, who knows how many more?

 

[PSLee]

Those are some awesome feeding pics!

 

[Animal Mother]

Were do these guys live in the world?

Murky, muddy waters around Sulawesi, Indonesia.

 

[Thales]

According to Hochberg, Norman and Finn - from the Indo-Malayan Archipelago from Indonesia and the Philippines, east to Papua New Guinea, and the Solomon Islands and Vanuatu.

I just happened to be reading the paper.

 

[Neogonodactylus]

I often read in this and other forums that Wunderpus and the Mimic are of unknown status when it comes to population size. (I will accept that Metasepia is in that category given its wider distribution and high numbers in some areas.) While I will agree that biologists cannot give you figures on individuals per unit area, experience by scientists and dive guides suggests that these animals are never common and are extremely patchy in their distribution. Everything we know about them suggests that they are vulnerable to exploitation by collection and are probably impacted by habitat destruction. I don't think one can justify the collection of these octopus by pleading ignorance of their population biology.

By the way, H. lunulata does not fit into this category. While there are several reasons why they should not be kept in the home aquarium, rarity is not one of them.

Roy

 

[mucktopus]

For several reasons it wouldn't be prudent to release imported Wunderpus pack into the wild:

1. During transport they are probably housed with lots of other animals in poor conditions. Who knows what sickness they may pick up (either at home or in the states), that they could spread when released.

2. You don't really know where they're from and which population they belong to. With a broad distribution, probably low fecundity (produce few eggs per lifetime), and patchy numbers, it's very possible that some populations are isolated genetically from others. You might end up introducing/ mixing genes that shouldn't be there.

3. Between the airfare, boat use and plastic bags, the carbon footprint of releasing one individual would be large.

4. There's a good chance it might die along the way.

With regard to whether or not it should be shown publicly- that's a tough one. In theory I support the idea. But in theory I support the film Finding Nemo too- it's a funny, well-made film with a great message. But anemone fish populations plummeted following that film. Legal collectors and poachers alike had (and continue to have) a field day. All the kiddies want one. And how could just one hurt?

 

[Thales]

I don't think one can justify the collection of these octopus by pleading ignorance of their population biology.

I don't think anyone here is doing that - just the opposite. I mention it because I think they should not be collected because of ignorance of their population biology.

 

[DWhatley]

Roy,
I just wanted to say a public, Thank You, that I often say silently while reading corrective material that you post from time to time.

Mucktopus,
I struggle with the exposure and silence issues regularly. When is information knowledge and when is it food for abuse? I wish I had the formula.

 

[monty]

Another element that fits in the information stew somewhere is that we participate in some of the most popular internet information sources about cephs. If we hide information about wunderpus and other exotics, then we lose the ability to leverage that for education. We all see the people who find us wanting to keep these animals, but we may not be aware of how many people find our resources, read our concerns, and decide to drop the idea of keeping them. To some extent, Thales' excellent videos are attention-getters that can perhaps be harnessed for a good cause rather than to promote the collection of these animals as pets.

 

[sedna]

I have to say, selfishly, that the ability to "live vicariously" through Thales' journal and videos really satiates any desires I'd have to own one. The fact that we can see videos and answer questions makes it interactive- to a small degree I get to participate in this animal's life. The various questions and concerns discussed here, on the first source of info that pops up in any web search on cephs, is an excellent example to all how serious an issue this is.

As D said, thank you Roy, Thales, Mucktopus and everyone else for sharing this discussion!

 

[Thales]

Great discussion guys!

I wish there was an easy answer, or formula that D mentions. I would say that the answer is that all exposure is knowledge AND food for abuse, and that maybe the trick is figuring out the right way to present that exposure. I think with the explosion of online hobbyist communities over the last 8-10 years, it is more important than ever to present exposure that facilitates knowledge because there is so much misunderstanding out there that leads to abuse that needs to be countered. I try not to tell people what to do because they seem to rebel against that, rather, I try just to say what I think and why and hope for the best from people.

I am happy that we are able to have these discussions here on TONMO in the members only exotic forum - such diverse opinions for such a wide range of people. I even enjoy that it has come up for all three of the wunderpus I have been honored to care for, as it keeps me on my toes and helps me refine what I actually think and how to express those thoughts.

What Mark wrote about harnessing for good is what I hope for. I have given a version of my ceph talk about a dozen times over the last 18 months, and each time I get to talk about how wunderpus simply don't make good pets. Sure I show what I think are good vids and pics, but I get to point out that the 2 minutes I show came from like 400 hours of nothing and that most of the time you don't even see the animal. I have given the talk at a couple events at LFS and I feel because of that they won't order these animals (one of the stores in CT would have the total rich impulse buy crowd, but after the talk they were excited they had good reasons to give people why NOT to keep these animals). I know there are bad apples out there, but I am convinced that more good will come from information and discussion than from silence. I know that as a hobbyist, hitting that wall of non information was painful and I watched others use the silence as a reason to justify the purchase of animals. I think in the ceph/reef world things are changing. 5 or 6 years ago there were adult bandensis coming in all over the place with most of them dying, but stores reordering as a lark. Now, at least around the Bay Area, I almost never see adults. Thats wild and amazing.

I am also trying to do my part regarding the collection of fish and corals - I get a talk about my experiences in Tonga and it isn't a 'wow this is a great hobby' kind of talk. The Tonga project didn't work and was actually a disaster. I took me a long time to figure out how to express what happened without being on a soap box or sounding bitter or pontificating. At least that is what I hope. People seem to be responding well - at least they keep inviting me to talk. I think the aquarium hobby is in for an interesting couple of years.

I continue to hope, even though I think it is futile, that the industry of collection will change. We need to get away from the supermarket mentality, and move to the speciality mentality. Perhaps the economic downturn will strangely be very helpful in this situation.

I am rambling. I hope some of that made some kind of sense.