Waldo - Macropus Complex
- Thread starter Dools
- Start date
Sometime it is very clear and sometimes a mystery as to why they ink but in this case I would say bumping the glass startled him.
Odd Behavior
I know this may be a odd question, but do octos ever exhibit emotional behavior? If I did not know any better Waldo got angry with me today. He flared out his arms while swimming in the middle of the tank then grabbed hold of one of the powerheads encircling it for a few moments; then went to the bottom of the tank where he disappeared into the LR. He usually stays out much longer before he goes into hiding for the day. It sounds crazy, but it really looked like he "threw a fit", then stormed out,
.
I know this may be a odd question, but do octos ever exhibit emotional behavior? If I did not know any better Waldo got angry with me today. He flared out his arms while swimming in the middle of the tank then grabbed hold of one of the powerheads encircling it for a few moments; then went to the bottom of the tank where he disappeared into the LR. He usually stays out much longer before he goes into hiding for the day. It sounds crazy, but it really looked like he "threw a fit", then stormed out,
.
Not at all odd and there have been studies to try to determine the extent of their mental reaction capabilities. In 2010 a study found that HDTV provided a new tool for studying octopus reactions and Roger Hanlon mentions (article in the first link of the thread) that it may provide a way to better study the degree of intelligence they show. The result of the initial study claims that octopuses have no personality but I disagree with both the method and the definition of personality the study used. Down slightly from the first link are several I added about other personality articles.
As far as TONMO reports to being octopuses being "pissy", there are lots of anecdotal posts. The most humorous involve the keeper getting a saltwater shower. I made a note in Octavia's thread that she seemed to use her siphon and spray us almost as an attention or "play" behavior rather than to show disagreement with something. Because "personality" has been a topic, I try to remember to record little observations that stand out and here are a couple I recorded about Octavia.
This is the first time I have been octoless since I lost Octane (my first hummelincki) as far as I can remember so it is very odd looking at the tanks and not seeing someone to greet me. With luck, I will have two new little guys (one being O. briareus and the other a mystery) next week though and have spent the weekend freshening tanks and acquiring a new camera (negatively eventful last few weeks!). They are not expected until Wednesday so hopefully I will at least be able to focus my new point and shoot before they arrive. I loved the Canon G9 but it is no longer made, was starting to have problems and my underwater housing leaks so it was time to move on when it suffered a fatal crash. I considered having it fixed but it was not worth the expense. We will see if the Nikon P7100 shows up how little I know about taking pictures or compensates as well as my prior friend.
before they arrive. I loved the Canon G9 but it is no longer made, was starting to have problems and my underwater housing leaks so it was time to move on when it suffered a fatal crash. I considered having it fixed but it was not worth the expense. We will see if the Nikon P7100 shows up how little I know about taking pictures or compensates as well as my prior friend.Farewell to Waldo
Well I don't know what happened, but I found Waldo dead this morning. I had him for 75 days and he was out and about up to the end; so I definitely didn't see it coming. The only change in behavior I noticed, was he was not out and waiting for me on the glass these past few days as he had done since I purchased him. He did eventually come out each morning and he ate on Wed. Yesterday I noticed he didn't stretch out his arms like normal, but they didn't appear to be just hanging there as I have seen with other octos on their last leg (pun intended).
I examined him for any obvious trauma, but didn't see anything. All of his legs were intact and his mantle didn't have any visible marks. I actually tried to do a necropsy, but mostly I made a mess (I'll spare you the photo). I did observe his "blood" was a dark brown and I am not sure if that is normal. The pic I am enclosing is not the best, but you can see his size compared to a quarter. I also measured him and he was about 7 inches from the end of his mantle to the tip of his longest arms.
I will try again soon and hopefully I will get one that is diurnal. I had just had the water checked by my LFS last week, but I will take in another sample tomorrow; just to be sure.
RIP Waldo - You were a great little octo,
Well I don't know what happened, but I found Waldo dead this morning. I had him for 75 days and he was out and about up to the end; so I definitely didn't see it coming. The only change in behavior I noticed, was he was not out and waiting for me on the glass these past few days as he had done since I purchased him. He did eventually come out each morning and he ate on Wed. Yesterday I noticed he didn't stretch out his arms like normal, but they didn't appear to be just hanging there as I have seen with other octos on their last leg (pun intended).
I examined him for any obvious trauma, but didn't see anything. All of his legs were intact and his mantle didn't have any visible marks. I actually tried to do a necropsy, but mostly I made a mess (I'll spare you the photo). I did observe his "blood" was a dark brown and I am not sure if that is normal. The pic I am enclosing is not the best, but you can see his size compared to a quarter. I also measured him and he was about 7 inches from the end of his mantle to the tip of his longest arms.
I will try again soon and hopefully I will get one that is diurnal. I had just had the water checked by my LFS last week, but I will take in another sample tomorrow; just to be sure.
RIP Waldo - You were a great little octo,
Attachments
He was small compared to my two but we see a LARGE variation in sizes with all species. He was out during more light than I experienced while mine were young and his early morning interaction kept me holding my breath when I noticed a post since mine did not come out in daylight until their last weeks. Just as I decided maybe it was OK, you posted his end. I hope he hooked you into keeping them though and you will enjoy your next chocolate surprise as much as this little guy.
When you have your water checked (or if you keep an SG meter at home) be sure to check salt content. I am not the only one to notice an animal acting oddly or softies looking drab and finding the salt to be low (it should be at full ocean content at about 1.026 sg). It is not likely the cause of death unless it is really low but I like to double check everything before putting a new animal in the tank.
When you said his "blood" was brownish, what makes you think it was blood? Octo blood is almost never seen and would be almost transparent with a bluish cast (according to my reading, I have never identified it and living animals don't naked eye detectably bleed). Anything you see in the picture or that "appears" to flow is chromatophore action that can continue for quite some time after death and is quite active if the dead animal is bumped (or dropped
). A brownish fluid would be ink, not blood.
Twice we are able to get an experienced squid dissection during TONMOcons but I missed both chances and would not attempt a necropsy without some kind of prior knowledge of what I was looking at (biology was left off of my stronger points of education). However, the next best thing is in a post I recorded the other day should others brave looking inside without someone to guide them. Waldo was a bit small to see much I suspect.
When you have your water checked (or if you keep an SG meter at home) be sure to check salt content. I am not the only one to notice an animal acting oddly or softies looking drab and finding the salt to be low (it should be at full ocean content at about 1.026 sg). It is not likely the cause of death unless it is really low but I like to double check everything before putting a new animal in the tank.
When you said his "blood" was brownish, what makes you think it was blood? Octo blood is almost never seen and would be almost transparent with a bluish cast (according to my reading, I have never identified it and living animals don't naked eye detectably bleed). Anything you see in the picture or that "appears" to flow is chromatophore action that can continue for quite some time after death and is quite active if the dead animal is bumped (or dropped
). A brownish fluid would be ink, not blood. Twice we are able to get an experienced squid dissection during TONMOcons but I missed both chances and would not attempt a necropsy without some kind of prior knowledge of what I was looking at (biology was left off of my stronger points of education). However, the next best thing is in a post I recorded the other day should others brave looking inside without someone to guide them. Waldo was a bit small to see much I suspect.
Waldo ID
Hi D,
To the end, Waldo only came out under the red light, so his death definitely came as a surprise. I just checked the salt content and it was approx 1.028; although I do not have digital measuring instrument (only the floating needle type).
I am attaching a better (althogh messier) picture of him in hopes you can ID his species. I thought the brown liquid might be ink, just wasn't sure.
I will definitely order another one, as having Waldo these past 2+ mos have given me the confidence that I can successfully care for one,.
Hi D,
To the end, Waldo only came out under the red light, so his death definitely came as a surprise. I just checked the salt content and it was approx 1.028; although I do not have digital measuring instrument (only the floating needle type).
I am attaching a better (althogh messier) picture of him in hopes you can ID his species. I thought the brown liquid might be ink, just wasn't sure.
I will definitely order another one, as having Waldo these past 2+ mos have given me the confidence that I can successfully care for one,
.Attachments
Thanks for adding the ruler. One day I will go about collecting approximate sizes (when we have more of this kind of photo) and put it in a sizing table.
Actual species ID though is not likely. We know these are one species but just not if it has been named. Divers often call them O. luteus but the book I have (Mark Norman's, Cephalopods A World Guide discounts that ID. If you google Macropus luteus you will see some that look like Waldo but others that are correctly identified and are much larger, fatter animals.
Actual species ID though is not likely. We know these are one species but just not if it has been named. Divers often call them O. luteus but the book I have (Mark Norman's, Cephalopods A World Guide discounts that ID. If you google Macropus luteus you will see some that look like Waldo but others that are correctly identified and are much larger, fatter animals.
Dools,
The one thing that occurred to me to suggest for the next one was to avoid worms in the diet. This is an anecdotal thought and I don't know when Waldo last ate them but Roy has seen octos die from crabs caught in polluted waters. Since Waldo did not show normal senescent signs, I went back over his journal and the worms kind of popped out at me. I suspect the worms themselves would not be a likely killer as I have fed black worms successfully to both seahorses and mandarins but I do wonder about any chemicals or copper that might be in the earth (intentional or by indirect accumulation) they ingest.
Oddly, as I write this, it also occurred to me to try blackworms when I next have hatchlings
The one thing that occurred to me to suggest for the next one was to avoid worms in the diet. This is an anecdotal thought and I don't know when Waldo last ate them but Roy has seen octos die from crabs caught in polluted waters. Since Waldo did not show normal senescent signs, I went back over his journal and the worms kind of popped out at me. I suspect the worms themselves would not be a likely killer as I have fed black worms successfully to both seahorses and mandarins but I do wonder about any chemicals or copper that might be in the earth (intentional or by indirect accumulation) they ingest.
Oddly, as I write this, it also occurred to me to try blackworms when I next have hatchlings
The last two feedings (Mon & Wed) for him were thawed shrimp, so I do not think that was the cause; but I will avoid using them in the future. Thanks for the advice. Initially I was sending my last posting to you privately because of the photo, but because your box was full; I justed posted it as a thread. Hopefully the photo does not offend anyone.
Congrats on your new arrivals. I can't wait to try again myself. I think I will use my LFS again, I like that she keeps it a few days to make sure it is eating before selling it. Do you think that is better than ordering one online?
Congrats on your new arrivals. I can't wait to try again myself. I think I will use my LFS again, I like that she keeps it a few days to make sure it is eating before selling it. Do you think that is better than ordering one online?
Each method has its advantages and disadvantages I think. In both cases the octopus has to endure shipping. When it goes through an LFS acclimation for only a few days and then has to transition to another new environment it adds stress. IME, the first two weeks are always critical and if an animal has to adjust twice, I would prefer to see a full two weeks at the LFS before the transfer. There is a slight advantage in the ensured live arrival, and the ability to see what you are getting before it goes into the tank and easier water acclimation since the PH levels should be very similar. It might be interesting to look through the journal listings to see if either method shows better mortality rates for the first month.
I am a special case
and have a primary supplier that is a direct collector but even with my advantage, I lose a few in the first two weeks.
I am a special case
and have a primary supplier that is a direct collector but even with my advantage, I lose a few in the first two weeks.Similar threads
Shop Amazon
Shop Amazon; support TONMO!
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon and affiliated sites.