• Looking to buy a cephalopod? Check out Tomh's Cephs Forum, and this post in particular shares important info about our policies as it relates to responsible ceph-keeping.

Responsibilities associated with keeping and breeding cephs

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marinebio_guy;82993 said:
It can work to a point. As I said the Kemp's ridley sea turtle is a good expample, and I can give lots of facts to back it up, also Bald Eagle, White Sea Bass, the list can go on. To make a broad statement that there is no way any of them can work is absurd.

Good Heaven's! Sorceress, I wonder how much each of those meetings cost us? :shock:

MBG: it is not at all absurd. You are basing your experience in three unproven relocation/redistribution efforts. The bald eagle was never in any imminent danger, but was used to railroad many companies. Ever been to Alaska?
The white sea bass is now considered a "pest" fish, with almost no limits on catch, as it has denuded local fish to the point of extermination.
I can make a far longer list of failures than you can of success's. As far as the sea turtle goes, wasn't the point of that to avoid predation upon the juveniles? Not re-introduction or impression ?

Check your facts.

greg
 
Off topic, I know, but most peregrines gracing our skies right now are from captive stocks through the Peregrine Fund, Tom Cade, and a plethora of peregrine breeders who had been producing falcons for falconry. I have worked with the Raptor Center in MN and they can trace the lineage of the majority of breeding peregrines back to captive stocks through their pedigree system. Sorry just my pet project being and veterinarian and falconer.
 
Some of the comments made in this thread really left a bad taste in my mouth. Is it really that hard to be civil in this debate? I can feel some passion on this topic, just try to keep it kind so no one is turned off.
 
nezw0001;83000 said:
Off topic, I know, but most peregrines gracing our skies right now are from captive stocks through the Peregrine Fund, Tom Cade, and a plethora of peregrine breeders who had been producing falcons for falconry. I have worked with the Raptor Center in MN and they can trace the lineage of the majority of breeding peregrines back to captive stocks through their pedigree system. Sorry just my pet project being and veterinarian and falconer.

I am also a class 3 falconer, and certainly the efforts of the early breedings had an impact upon the wild introduction. Now we have Peregrines where they never existed before, too...guess those Prairie Falcons will just have to find prey somewhere else, hmmm?
 
Animal Mother;83010 said:
The California Condors of the Grand Canyon...


Check their status. It is a great PR job...but, a failure all in all. Even the cranes have an impact on the local ecological damage. Yes, we as human beings have managed to screw up many an animal species role in the natural habitat. The problem is, when you try to fix something that has already been repaired, you are making further glitches. Why did the condor become near extinct? Was it due to human intervention. No.
The cranes are a sad story, as is the demise of the passenger pidgeon, and hundreds of species per year. Captive breeding is not the answer, wildlife management of a responsible nature is. We need to stop screwing around with everything, including collecting octopus.
 
Some of the comments made in this thread really left a bad taste in my mouth. Is it really that hard to be civil in this debate? I can feel some passion on this topic, just try to keep it kind so no one is turned off.
Thanks Fini -- we've discussed this a bit as staff. I believe strongly that alignment is key -- there are some frustrations coming through with a "soft spot" in our forum moderation and we'll address by year's end.

Collectively, I am confident I can speak for staff when I say we are staunchly in support of open discussion and self-regulation within the community -- however, we believe we can do more to define the framework of our beliefs when it comes to responsible ceph keeping.

I agree, Fini, the tone in this thread and perhaps one or two others is a bit of a downer and is not at all in the spirit of TONMO.com. Again, I feel an overall weak spot has been exploited a bit and I intend to ensure it gets addressed by way of a clearer statement of purpose and a better articulation of our collective philosophy on cephs and ceph care.

Thanks for everyone's patience!
 
when it comes to captive bred and then released animals, what i was talking about was solely those released for environmental purposes. believe me, there are enough problems from idiots releasing pets where i live. ive seen enough python vs gator or python killing pet dog stories on the local news to make you sick. its tiring.

but we also have a very good community when it comes to lack of poaching and a respect of wildlife when u go farther up into central florida, which is where the wolves I was talking about were released. i know it does not work for all animals, but it does work for some and it is worth the effort for some species, dependant on the species and the surrounding environment.

there are also those species whose natural habitat has been ruined so badly that there are no longer any wild animals of that kind, all that are left are the captive bred ones. and they cannot be released, not becaese they were captive bred, but necause they literally have no home in their natural habitats.

what makes this type of argument so heated is when it no longer is a debate. you cannot debate something when using the words "always" and "never" and the likes of them. i am still in school and i know this. if you are going to state an opinion, do it right. and if you are going to do it without seeming to have an ego, you might want to check how you are writing your opinions.

I may not be a legal "adult" yet, but I have learned this much from school.
 
DHyslop;83037 said:
Its not about how old you are, but how old you act :smile:

LOL...ouch !

Actually, I feel quite comfortable with saying always and never...the facts back me up 100%. People have pointed to supposedly successful programs, the major problem is that we declare victory when after a year or two, the animals may have survived. Will they provide a sustainable breeding population? No. Never. Programs like this are done to garner money for the more important issues, such as actual wildlife management...controls of take, habitat preservation, etc. That is where we should be spending our time and resources.

Back to the case in point, no, I do not feel that most of the people who keep cephalopods in captivity are correct in doing so. The posts that started this debate were in relation to releasing captive bred octopus into their natural habitat, which I do believe was accurately pointed out to be completely wrong. We can't go tromping around the balance in the wild, all the while shouting at the top of our lungs just what great good we are doing by undertaking such programs as "captive breeding".

Never, as always. :smile:
 
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