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Once bitten, twice shy

Monty, I knew the flamboyant was toxic, but didn't the recent study on the Nova(?) program determine they were also venomous? I thought they tested several variables (including the skin and saliva) and said all samples came back toxic, meaning it was both toxic and venomous.

Maybe I misunderstood it?
 
NZ's small O. huttoni (Benham) has sent a few to hospital; I receive a call or two a year from worried doctors.

What on Earth is a pajama squid?
 
I guess these names are just made up.

What's next? Chocolate Pantyhose Squid? Grandma's Bloomers Squid?
 
Dan,

Glad you are OK.

Steve, you think those names are made up, you should see what people are doing to coral names. I kid you not - radioactive gorilla nipple zoanthids.
 
Michael Blue;92234 said:
Monty, I knew the flamboyant was toxic, but didn't the recent study on the Nova(?) program determine they were also venomous? I thought they tested several variables (including the skin and saliva) and said all samples came back toxic, meaning it was both toxic and venomous.

Maybe I misunderstood it?

As far as I've been able to tell, the results have never been published in anything that google scholar indexes, which is usually a pretty good representation of all scientific literature. (I searched for "norman metasepia," "metasepia toxin," and "metasepia venom" with no meaningful results.) So as far as I can tell, the only report of this is the Nova show.

I just went back to my recording, and re-listened. They mentioned that they looked for toxin in the saliva and ink during the "build up suspense, will it be toxic or not" part, but when reporting the results, Mark Norman said:

"It turns out the flamboyant cuttlefish is toxic. It's as toxic as a blue-ringed octopus... it's actually poisonous flesh: the muscles themselves are poisonous... the toxin itself is not known, it's some completely different class of toxins..."

It could just be bad editing, but my impression is that the only part of the animal that's toxic is the flesh. I also strikes me as oversimplified: How did they decide it was "as toxic as a blue ring?" Did they poison 100 people with blue ring venom and with metasepia flesh, and find that 80 of each group died? And if it's a toxin that's chemically different from TTX, it seems like it's comparing apples and oranges to say "it's just as toxic."

Anyway, since it's unpublished data, as far as I can tell, going on the Nova special for anything important is pretty unwise... I'd suggest avoiding being bitten by or eating metasepia, just to play it safe.
 
Neogonodactylus;92178 said:
When considering envenomation, you have to consider a host of variables when discussing this topic. They include species, size, depth and duration of the puncture, immune system of the victim, etc. Then there is the danger of the introduction of pathogens into the wound that has nothing to do with the venom that the octopus possesses. As I have said many times before, it is ill advised to offer any octopus the opportunity to bite. Some species definitely pose a risk due to their venom (Hapalochlaena, O. motuti, to a lesser extent O. rubescens and O. fetchi, and what about the 100 or more other species for which we have no data. Play it safe and do not invite a bite.

Mr. O's mantle is now about the size of a lemon. The bite wasn't any deeper than previous nibbles, but it did last considerably longer--between 15 seconds and a minute perhaps. I don't believe this was the case of any external pathogens: I work in aquarium service and it isn't uncommon to have fresh cuts exposed to tank water.

Since the event I've become a bit more forceful in removing myself if he wants to bring me too close to his beak. He sure isn't afraid of me though, I can't open the lid without him coming up and trying to climb out and squirt me!

Dan
 
Taollan;92123 said:
I honestly believe differences in bites have less to do with differential reactions than it does with whether or not the octopus actually envenomates and to what degree that it does...

I just compare this to a bite from a venomous snake, since they are my main hobby, along with aquariums. Any snakebite can be different; you can be bitten by the most venomous snake on Earth (inland taipan), but have no reaction at all. It's called a dry bite, which is exactly what it is. The snake bites, but no venom is pumped (or dripped) into the bite. However, you could also be bitten by something as common as a copperead, and he might pump you full, resulting in a worse reaction than the one from the Taipan! Speaking of snakes: Jean, you are really lucky to live in NZ, a place so full of herpetoculture!
 
DHyslop;92254 said:
Mr. O's mantle is now about the size of a lemon.
That's just rude! When did you see my mantle? It's as big as a dinner plate, thank you, and has seriously evil barbs and rotating spikey things too, and big beaks!
 
sorseress;92300 said:
And are you also venomous? :lol:
Some might say .... after a few things that have happened around this place (work) this last week I think it's about time someone experienced a bite, rather than plain-old-ineffectual bark.
 

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