octos keep dying

Jean

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Unfortunately a small amount of copper won't affect your plants much but will kill an octopus. It's near impossible to get rid of copper from plastics we had to re-plumb the entire system after our copper episode (and as an added precaution we relined all the tanks on the effected side) I would suggest that copper may be the culprit (although the Nitrates were a bit higher than I like) we had a fairly hefty dose which led to convulsions and death we ended up with about 0.5mg/L which is absolutely HUGE (LC50 values are usually less![ that is the concentration required to kill half of the test subjects]). I would suspect that lower doses may not be so.......dramatic.....

J
 

Nancy

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I was scrolling back in this thread and I coudn't find the level of nitrates. What do you think about the level of nitrates for octopuses, Jean?

Nancy
 

Jean

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Nancy;117092 said:
I was scrolling back in this thread and I coudn't find the level of nitrates. What do you think about the level of nitrates for octopuses, Jean?

Nancy

We like 10ppm or less Nancy, of course it does help that we have a flow through system :biggrin2:

It just helps keep algal blooms, illness etc at bay.

J
 

monty

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I'd like to collect the info here and that a few folks like Jean & Cuttlegirl posted recently in other threads into a "copper mini-faq"-- is everyone OK if I lift some of these explanations verbatim (with credit, of course)?

Sometimes I think having a TONMO wiki sort of thing for stuff that can have an easier-to-search community store for stuff there's a lot of lore on, but that no one is quite confident enough to declare themselves to be the "single authority" on... Although maybe Nancy & Colin will obviate the need for that with their new book!
 

DWhatley

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Monty,
The wiki concept would be terrific. The search engine just doesn't get it for this kind of search. Hopefully, we would get direct contributions and some of the staff could make special requests of our specialists for often asked questions that all have multiple answers buried in the dialogs ... somewhere. I have taken to digging up most of the threads I reference because it is so difficult for someone who has not read the thread to find it. A wiki on technical issues would be a terrific start, then it might be possible to link back to threads where the topics are discussed. THEN if Tony could come up with a button that any member could click to suggest a post be added to the wiki, maintenance might be less of a nightmare.
 

monty

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dwhatley;117118 said:
Monty,
The wiki concept would be terrific. The search engine just doesn't get it for this kind of search. Hopefully, we would get direct contributions and some of the staff could make special requests of our specialists for often asked questions that all have multiple answers buried in the dialogs ... somewhere. I have taken to digging up most of the threads I reference because it is so difficult for someone who has not read the thread to find it. A wiki on technical issues would be a terrific start, then it might be possible to link back to threads where the topics are discussed. THEN if Tony could come up with a button that any member could click to suggest a post be added to the wiki, maintenance might be less of a nightmare.

Yeah, I'm in a "something like that ought to work" frame of mind. Wikis often work better than I expect, so if we paid attention to make sure no bad edits were there, I think we'd be OK. Maybe having some rule that only allows people who have posted X times, or who have been approved by staff, or something, would keep spammers & vandals out. I've got a pending request with Tony about the forum search, I've been finding it difficult to get good search results for a few months... perhaps I should ping him again. I've been using the "search TONMO.com with google" thing on the front page sometimes, although that doesn't index supporters or exotics.

I think a few prime candidates for some sort of organized reference are: copper, cycling, how to raise large-egged octos, and how to try and raise small-egged octos even though you're going to fail. Something about tank size, octo species, and why smaller tanks/octos aren't good for beginners would probably be good too, even though that's covered in the articles pretty well.

Anyway, I was inspired to try to start with a mini-FAQ about copper, since there's been a flurry of good information, but in a format that's going to be hard to search for later...
 

DWhatley

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Monty,
The articles should also be in the wiki XREF since I don't believe they are in the search base at all. A wiki would extend the use of the articles, not replace it. IMO, the original entries should only be by staff or by special request but links to forum entries should be available to all members. This keeps down the content and reviews to important concepts but allows crossreferencing by anyone who finds (or originates a diatribe) helpful posts. Sound good on paper anyway.
 
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monty;117101 said:
I'd like to collect the info here and that a few folks like Jean & Cuttlegirl posted recently in other threads into a "copper mini-faq"-- is everyone OK if I lift some of these explanations verbatim (with credit, of course)?

Sometimes I think having a TONMO wiki sort of thing for stuff that can have an easier-to-search community store for stuff there's a lot of lore on, but that no one is quite confident enough to declare themselves to be the "single authority" on... Although maybe Nancy & Colin will obviate the need for that with their new book!

It's ok with me, but I think I just searched for an appropriate article...
 
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octo

well last night i did a huge water change and bleached the tufa rocks and scrubed the hell out of the tank and tide pool. i was thinking why did the bimac live in that same tank the others died in?and what about curpisorb would that take the rest of the copper out? and im running my ozone very high one that tank. after another water change do you guys think it will be safe then? and all the little copepods and brissle worms are still alive. maybe the other problem could be my home made denitrater made from pvc w/25 feet of hose going down then up through bio balls. thats how i got my nitrates down from 100ppm to 20ppm. any more thought before i get another? i dont want to kill himm. thanyou to all your help jimmy. and is there any thing i can use to scrub the wet-dry with that might help getting the copper out? im not a marine expert but something tells me its not the copper. but i trust your answers way befor mine thanks again.
 
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jimmy 22;117162 said:
maybe the other problem could be my home made denitrater made from pvc w/25 feet of hose going down then up through bio balls. thats how i got my nitrates down from 100ppm to 20ppm.

It could have been your nitrates - 100 ppm is high for a cephalopod...
 

Jean

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jimmy 22;117162 said:
well last night i did a huge water change and bleached the tufa rocks and scrubed the hell out of the tank and tide pool. i was thinking why did the bimac live in that same tank the others died in?and what about curpisorb would that take the rest of the copper out? and im running my ozone very high one that tank. after another water change do you guys think it will be safe then? and all the little copepods and brissle worms are still alive. maybe the other problem could be my home made denitrater made from pvc w/25 feet of hose going down then up through bio balls. thats how i got my nitrates down from 100ppm to 20ppm. any more thought before i get another? i dont want to kill himm. thanyou to all your help jimmy. and is there any thing i can use to scrub the wet-dry with that might help getting the copper out? im not a marine expert but something tells me its not the copper. but i trust your answers way befor mine thanks again.

Be sure that the bleach is neutralised before you reintroduce your tufa to the tank. I have very little faith in cuprisorb. If there was copper in the tank then personally I think the only solution for the wet/dry is to replace it. We've never had any luck with cleaning copper out of anything!

That nitrate level was awfully high and may have caused some issues, how old is your test kit? I'm wondering if it really did come down.

J
 
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octo

test kit is about 3 months old. its a doc well fish brand api .if copper residuew is the propblem than why are the copapods and brissel worms and plants doing great? could it be the dentrate filter i built? i have the water just a drip a second it did lower the nitrate from 100 to 20 in 3 months. could that be the problem? the water coming out of the dnitrater has gases in it? the tank is full of clean cycled water but im afraid to put another octo in the tank. someone please help i did everything i thought could be the problem? thanyou all so much.
 

Jean

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Some marine invertebrates and plants are quite tolerant of copper. Bristle worms in particular are known for their ability to live in quite polluted environments, some such as Capitella actually favour nutrient enriched (ie polluted ) habitats and show little effect of copper or other heavy metals.

J
 
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i posted this in the wrong title. the reason for all the death was i had refugium mud in my shed not coverd but i rinsed it. but as soon as i took all the mud and sand out it lived and is eatind on his 2nd day. i thoght id never figure it out. after re glueing and rinsing and a million other things i finallt got it thanks to everyone w/there help.
 
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