Need help with Orthocone sculpture

modelnut

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Hello! Newbie here.

I was researching images of giant orthocones and came across Phil's thread and had to register!

The giant orthocone in Nigel Marvin's "Swimming with Sea Monsters" really caught my imagination. I have wanted to sculpt the beast ever since. So far I have the conical shell complete at 26cm. Since the finished model is intended to be 35th scale that makes it less than the suggested greatest size of 11 meters. (I may lengthen the shell or not. It is a good size for the base it will sit on.)

I have the image from Phil's thread:

I have this also:
nautiloid-auf-basis1.JPG

It is from the bottom of this page: http://bestiarium.kryptozoologie.net/artikel/2007/09/

What I need to know is what this animals tentacles were like.
The DVD suggested that suckers hadn't evolved in the Ordovician so what gave the animal its grip?
A rough gripping callous? Claws?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. :biggrin2:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In the meantime . . .

I have a sculpture that you might find interesting. If you have heard of the Speculative Dinosaur Project you may know about their baleen squid. In the Spec dimension, the asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs missed. So life on that world did not turn out the way it did here. Mammals never took over so whales never evolved. Squid diversified and took their place. I got excited about the idea and sculpted one: http://groups.msn.com/ModelersAndHobbyForum/modeltsar.msnw?Page=1

I don't know why, but squids and octopi fascinate me. :sink:

Thank you!
-Leelan
 

monty

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:welcome: I don't know why either, but squids and octopuses fascinate most of us, too!

I bet we'd all love to know what adorned the tentacles of ancient ammonoids and nautiloids, but the honest answer is that we have no idea... there's some evidence that the ancestral form had 10 appendages, since all living cephs start development with 10 buds on the embryo. Nautilus is the only example we have of a nautiloid, and its tentacles split into a large number (40-ish, IIRC) of tentacles that look relatively plain, but have some sticky and rough parts for traction, but no suckers. I think it's quite a stretch to say that nautilus is representative of the ancestral forms, though: as the sole survivor of the lineage through a number of extinctions and radiations, it quite likely has very different traits than some of its ancestors.

I picture the early shelled cephs as only needing fairly straightforward arms, since their ability to move in 3-d really gave them an advantage in that they could swoop down and scoop up trilobites, who didn't really have any obvious way to apply leverage to escape once they were lifted off the ground... but that's purely hypothetical: if they had feeding tentacles with suction cups like modern squids and cuttles, that would also have worked fine, I just see those as probably a later development in coleoids, which is somewhat backed up by the 10 identical hooked arms seen in fossil belemnites. But, for reasons we don't really know, no one has ever found a well-preserved impression of the soft body parts of any ammonoid our nautiloid.
 

Sordes

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The model is really great, I also love the speculative Dinosaur project and already linked some pages about the cephalopods somewhere in the forum. I actually registered very late that I know two of the specworld creators since a longer time.
 

modelnut

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Thank you for your warm welcome and kind words!

Spent yesterday adding a bit more length to the cameroceras' cone. I was using the measurements I found in the book, "Swimming with Sea Monsters". They had the shell a bit shorter than the 11 meters I found online. No worries. The project isn't on any time schedule. I am only doing it because I want to. :cyclops:

I will look around a bit to see what I might reasonably populate the base with (sponges, a few trilobites, who knows?) It should be enough to make it interesting without attracting attention away from the model.

Any idea how long it took cameroceras to get so large? How lived-in should the shell appear? Should there be a few barnacles?

How about algal growth? The shell is as long as a minisub and never leaves the water. The animal can't groom or clean its shell --- its arms aren't long enough. So what sort of grime should be present and how much is reasonable?

The project is weeks away from replicating that grime. But I think about those things . . . :read:

-Leelan
 

modelnut

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Sordes!

Love your work, man! :shock: Very well done!

This one reminds me of a book by Eric Flint, Mother of Demons : http://www.amazon.com/Mother-Demons-Eric-Flint/dp/067187800X/ref=sr_1_43?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209054925&sr=1-43

cthulhuoid4.JPG


Humans try to colonize a distant planet only to find an intelligent species already in charge --- intelligent terrestrial cephalopods!

Very professional! Maybe someday I will be as good. Just have to keep at it. :banghead:

Here is another that I have done: http://starshipmodeler.org/gallery6/ll_basil.htm
It isn't a cephalopod but it probably ate them.

Going to do more research now. Check with you all later!

-Leelan
 

Sordes

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At the base of my last model I did spend a lot of time sculpting little sponges, coralls and old shells of dead orthocones, but unpainted it still looks a bit boring. The orthocone shells I saw in the paleontological collection in Tübingen had all a very smooth surface without any signs of additional growth. But I don´t know how the shells of the very large ones looked. But given the fact that even modern giant and colossal squid live only for some years, it could be that those ancient giant grew also very fast, and their shells looked even at the end of their lifes very "proper", similar to nautilus shells.
 

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