• Looking to buy a cephalopod? Check out Tomh's Cephs Forum, and this post in particular shares important info about our policies as it relates to responsible ceph-keeping.

May Have flamboyant hook-up

Although I cannot remember the source, I recall reading that no one has been able to keep a paper nautilus alive for more then a few weeks..

Interesting though is that their life span can be a few years..

They also have dietery habits that differ from normal cephs. Along with crustaceans, they also eat a lot of jellyfish by attaching themselves to them and sucking thier insides out :lol:
 
on page 196 at the bottom in the Ceph World Guide they talk about someone who got a stranded female and kept it in a aquarium for 3 weeks while watching the eggs develop.

They also said that they can jet around very fast. Probably not a good quality for home aquariums. Sounds like all the difficult stuff of squid and nautilus balled up together in a paper thin shell. :bugout:
 
Well Roy I'm also glad that you didn't delete your post. The reality is that flamboyants are rare and the aquarium trade puts heavy pressure on them. The demand absolutely does trickle down putting pressure on locals to collect them. Spotters get a kick-back for reporting the location of rare muck prize animals such as flambos, frogfish, mimics, wunderpus, etc. Divemaster friends of mine will no longer divulge the location of these animals to certain other divemasters because they suddenly go missing as soon as the info gets out. I remember how upset many people (myself included) were when the picture of Metasepia eggs in a coconut shell showed up in the Cephs of the World guide-- collectors were given a treasure map directing them to the entire reproductive output of females - to be stashed discretely into one goody bag. In addition to Righty and some others, The Waikiki Aquarium also gave it a shot. No dice. Rightly is doing wonders with S. bandensis- let's learn what we can from his efforts. When they lead to self-sustaining stocks then it may be time for someone very well-experienced (like Righty, NRCC, etc) to try it with Metasepia. In the meantime, please leave them in the muck.
--Crissy
 
Hey guys,

My understanding is that the eggs aren't stateside, and have been told that they are being held in Oz. If they were stateside, I would jump all over it, but part of me feels that they may get collected for the order. Any advice?
 
Ask for a photo next to todays news? :biggrin2:
To be honest I wouldnt worry about it, they are all taken from the sea regardless whether they were taken proir to your order or not, and you are probably the most suitable person to receive them anyway, without them your breeding efforts wont be able to amount to much!!!
 
Righty said:
but part of me feels that they may get collected for the order. Any advice?
Is that true? That the natives don't collect the flams without a order from a lfs? If that were true -it would be different. I have a hard time believing that they are. Communications cannot be that good. I believed that natives saw something rare and caught it to sell to buyers in Indonesia who sent lists to distributors in the states who faxed the lists to the LFS. Meaning that they hunted for things that would put the most money in their pocket and food on the table. Also meaning that if I didn't buy one-they would still come. That they came on the stateside lists before anyone stateside asks, and that "ordering" fish meant that the LFS went over their lists or at the most called the stateside distributor who checked over his lists from Indonesia (of animals that were already caught).

I have been to Indonesia, but not with cephs in mind (Hong Kong, Singapore, and Bangkok.)

Righty have you been there and know how the "Ordering" works?
 
I know how some of the ordering works. Most collectors collect what they are told to collect, and don't pick up things on their own initiative as it often isn't profitable to do so. Since flam eggs haven't been on lists before to the best of my knowledge, I have to believe they were asked for. Think about it this way - over the last two years there have been a dramatic increase in the amount of requests to collect cuttlefish eggs, and more eggs have been collected. Since cuttlefish eggs are 'hot', the collectors have been asked to collect any cuttlefish eggs. I am know that it has been more than just me (I?) making discreet inquiries about flamboyant eggs over the last year. So, I don't believe this is a one off, random collection.

I also know that they have been showing up on lists for other wholesalers, so my worry is that the initial eggs were sold and now more have been collected or will be collected to fill the current wants.

The marine ornamental trade has, in general, a supermarket attitude. Meaning, facilities at all levels like to have a plethora of each item available for those who might want it. So, if flam eggs are snapped up, it is probable that more will be collected instantly for the next order that might want them. I am not a fan of the supermarket approach, and would prefer to see more of a custom order approach. Sure it gets in the way of instant gratification, but it is less wasteful of animal life. So, the deeper worry is that these animals will continue to be collected just like the mimic octos. I have no idea if this will be the case, but it is my worry.

But I digress.

I believe that the stateside people believe that these eggs are being held in Oz right now, and I believe the stateside folks involved have no nefarious intent and want to get the eggs and adults to only people we here feel have a chance with them. If the reality is they are actually being held in Oz is another question, which unfortunately the only way to answer is to go there and look.

I think Crissy makes a great point in saying that we haven't been about to get bandensis going in captivity, so should we even try with flamboyants? On the other hand, there is an analogous situation with sps corals - people tried to keep them before they were perfect with lps corals, and after a time became wildly successful.

As I said earlier, I am still torn, and have till mid day to make up my mind.
 
Hello, thought Id chime in here because this situation involves me as well.

As you may know, I have been raising and attempting to breed Bandensis. Pretty much along side with Righty. We actually live 25 minutes apart! Our plan was to raise the bandensis from eggs and when/if we had fertile eggs, we would swap eggs to increase genetic variation. All while recording and learning as much as possible. Haveing two isolated systems (Righty's setup and Mine) works great as a way to compare and check each others progress. Unfortunatley, both of us have had some bad luck in which breeding for this generation of bandensis will not happen.

This opportunity came in perfect timing for Righty and I both have the the tank space rady and setup for a new generation of eggs. I still have adult bandensis, but I have a lot of room in my egg and juvenile sections.

I know there is a moral dilemna regarding this and a catch 22 invovling..if we should take care of and learn as much as we can from ones that have already entered the aquarium trade for they are most likely doomed in the hands of most hobbyists? Or..should we ignore this resource in hopes that it will discourage further collection..

Regardless of Righty and my decision to take some or not, an order is going to go through. If we decided to take some ourselves, we would be just adding to the order. So, even if we decide to not purchase some eggs, some will already be coming to the US from OZ regardless. I also feel that even if our decision is to not partake, I feel the eggs will be snatched up by someone else and our statement goes unoticed.

I am torn in this situation, but I am leaning towards the decision of attempting one festoon of eggs. However, the communities insight is much appreciated.
 
As the modified cliche goes you cant make an Flambéd omelette without taking a few eggs..............

I think the benefits far outway the negatives. If you learn how to breed them successfully the species wil be much better off.
 

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