ID Help Please!

JoeTwo

Pygmy Octopus
Registered
Joined
Jan 22, 2010
Messages
12
Hi,

First I'd like to thank all the TONMO contributors. I've been a lurker for several months now, and I have found the site to be both an interesting and invaluable octopus resource. Two days ago, I acquired my first octo, Samwise, so I felt compelled to finally register.

As first order of business, I'm hoping to ID my new octo. While the LFS seemed knowledgeable about care, all the info they could offer was that it is a juvenile "Caribbean" octopus and not a pygmy. It is a little bigger than a golf ball when balled up and its total arm span seems to be about 8". Please let me know if you have any ideas as to what it might be. I apologize in advance for the quality of the pictures, but I wanted to avoid frightening it with a flash. The first two show what might be its normal coloration while I was drip acclimating it (pictured with an emerald crab) - tan with dark brown striped patterns. The third shows it right after being placed into the tank. Upon entering the water, it promptly changed to a solid blue/brown and jetted out of sight behind live rock.

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Additionally, while I'm glad I've provided plenty of hiding places, I haven't seen the octopus since placing it in the tank. I know it is eating based upon empty crab shells, but I would like to know when I might expect it to become a little braver and venture out from its hiding spot so that i can enjoy it. I'll try to add better pictures once it does.

Thanks in advance for the help.

-Tommy
 
I am sticking with NOT briareus for sure but hummelincki/filosus is not ruled out as sometimes the eyespots are not a apparent as on the ones I have had. We have had members swear they weren't there and report seeing them the next day. One sure way to find out is not recommended but observe if it happens. Hummelincki will turn bright white when frightened and the eyespots will literally glow. If you see this one turn white with fright as it were and not see the eyespots then my first choice is still the most likely. I did not catch the best of it on film but here are a series of shots I did get when the dogs came charging into the room (or something like that) and scared Octane.

Without scaring the octo, the next determination is to watch how much it patterns its skin. Does his skin to have lots of bumps of varying sizes or is the skin usually very smooth (like in my avitar) with no or few bumps. These skin fingers are part of the natural camoflage and should be apparent while climbing on the rock work. Hopefully some of your video tape will let you see if he patterns his skin. If the mantle does not change texture much then we are still pointing toward vulgaris.

We have had many, many observations of octopuses seeming to like TV or computer screens. My son has a damsel that he swears watches TV so he angled the tank and TV in his room for the fish to be able to see. I won't say the fish actually watches but it is always positioned as if it is IF the TV is on (it doesn't matter if someone is watching it).

Slyly spying on their enviornment and the moving animals out side the tank is also common but I think the light movement of the computer/TV may help keep them curious about their surroundings, particularly if there is nothing that swims with then in the tank.
 
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Thats interesting because my computer is right next to my octo and tank and my moms is on the other side of it. All of my octos when i first got them would either be on my moms side or mine. Maybe computers and tvs will help entice new octos from out of the dens?
 
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Legs' tank is also next to my computer, she loves to watch me and the computer. She will plaster herself to the glass and bob u[ and down, kinda like a parrot. I am convinced she likes all the colors.
 
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I am convinced she likes all the colors.

Movement or moving lights are more likely as we don't think they see in color. There are many keepers who would argue that their animals appear to see color and hear at human frequencies but there is no evidence of what we understand should be there in the eye to perceive more than shades of grey. Experiments with color detection fail but that was true with hearing until recent studies showed a possible frequency detection range after noticing a potential detection method (initially discovered in shrimp, if I remember correctly).
 
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Not hummelincki! Way too much arm length. However, I am also thinking that is too much arm length for vulgaris at this age. How sure are you that this is Caribbean? I am thinking Indonesian. Watch for little horns over the eyes.

Arm to mantle ratio and daytime activity make me think aculeatus. They are Indonesian, not Caribbean and usually you will see a lot of patterning on the skin and their trademark eye horns. If Samwise is Caribbean, I don't think is it one we see often but pet stores often have no real clue where an octopus comes from when it arrives in a shipment.

Here is a link to a journal with a lot of aculeatus photos. See what you think about this one BUT you should be seeing the eyehorns and skin patterning soon as they don't often stay smooth skinned. The fact that there is no one around might account for this though.

New Aculeatus(?) Journal - Octopus Prime!
 
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I'm not sure at all that Samwise is a Caribbean octopus. The LFS rep didn't seem overly confident when he told me he was, and I know they don't usually stock/sell octopus, so Indonesian is a possibility.

I added 4 serpent starfish to the main tank three nights ago and they have all found good hiding spots, but let their arms hang out of the LR, allowing me to find them pretty easily. Also, I have added two of four mushroom corals I ordered a week ago (2 were DOA) and they are growing well.

I don't know if it's at all related to the new tank inhabitants, but Samwise seems to have become relatively comfortable coming out of hiding with people around. Every day recently, he's been spotted swimming around the tank freely, sticking to the front glass, and feeling his way along the top of the tank above the waterline. Most of the activity is during the late afternoon/early evening when the tank lights are on, although he's done the same at night after the tank lights are all off except for the red LED's. If I walk up to the tank to watch him, he continues as if I'm not even there. Even when he's in hiding, he will occasionally stick out his arms through holes in the LR.

I looked at the linked journal and while some of the colorations look somewhat familiar, I have definitely never seen horns above his eyes. Also, while I have seen him change his skin patterning as shown in the photos, for the most part, his skin remains smooth or close to it both when observing him covertly with the webcam and in person.

Today, I added some thawed frozen raw shrimp to the tank, expecting my serpent stars and snails to eat it, but within 10 minutes, Samwise came out of his den and went straight for it, pulled it to his mouth, and disappeared again into his den with it. I was surprised he took it so readily, especially considering a live fiddler crab (which he's eaten previously) has been in the tank untouched for a few days now. Hopefully he likes his first taste of shrimp and I can start stick-feeding him soon.
 
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I would go ahead and offer shrimp on a stick now. If he will take dead that easily, then go for it.

The skin patterning and horns are a definite trait that you should see if aculeatus. The behavior fits well for a diurnal octopus and I feel pretty sure it is not Caribbean or Atlantic. More photos please. :sagrin:
 
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I just got a nice view of Lumbzy as he came out of his den and sure enough, he had two very noticeable horns over his eyes. Also, his skin was a mixed brown/tan/black with a lot of patterning/bumpiness to it. It's strange that as soon as I read the last few posts I see these things, but I swear I've never seen him like that before. Since first appearing, he lost these features and reverted back to the way I usually see him, then regained them. I got a few much higher quality pictures of him during his outing. By the way, for sizing purposes, this shot has some of the large Lego blocks. The rest of the pictures are in my photobucket album, some of which clearly show the horns.

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http://s771.photobucket.com/albums/xx352/xtomcx/

So based on these pics, the last few posts in the thread, and Octopus Prime's journal, unless anyone else has any other suggestions, I think Lumbzy's an aculeatus. If anyone can second or dispute that ID, please speak up.

Now I have some species research to do haha. And next, maybe I can work on determining gender. Thank you all for your help.
 
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It is not surprising that you see ID characteristics soon after denying them, happens all the time :wink:. One keeper recently swore there could not be eyespots on an almost positive ID on hummelincki only to report back almost immediately that they were confirmed. I find it usually helps to see photos rather than just giving descriptions for identifying markings.

I have not gone to the photobucket shots yet but gender (if it is a male), believe it or not, is often easier than species. I do NOT have a good photo of a male aculeatus and would like to add this species to this post that shows what to look for to determine a male octopus (in most cases). If you can determine that Samwise is male and can get a well focused photo of the hectocotylized arm or enlarged suckers, please post it so I can add it to the photos in the gender post. Females are generally identified by two things, either the lack of a curled up third arm to the right (clockwise) or brooding behavior followed by egg laying.

You should find many interesting posts by Crissy Huffard (TONMO MUCKTOPUS) in your search and some of her video will amaze you. Unfortunately, we don't see too much of the facinating walking behavior Mucktopus documented in the aquarium. You will probably enjoy listening to this interview with Roy Caldwell (TONMO Neogonodactylus) discussing photos of aculeatus and a study Crissy did while a doctorial student under Roy.

Looking at the photos:
The little star burst around the eye is also diagnostic of A.aculeatus.
The purple outline on the suckers is also a trait common to both hummelincki and aculeatus.
 
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Well, looking at the pics you linked and comparing, I can say he is definitely a male. He just crawled across the front of the glass, and sure enough the described arm was curled up and held close to his body while the others were all stretched out. Right now I'm just working on getting a good picture. I got two where the curled arm is shown, but they're both blurry.
 
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Roy, does delfilippi also show an eye "horn"? I was able to discount the ones I have kept (most of the typical Caribbean) but what discounts aculeatus? I noticed that this one looks thicker but I can't see how to discount aculeatus in the new photos. I keep trying to get good at this but every time I think I have as least some of them down if miss:hmm:. Very cool if we have a different one for a change.

Tommy, see if you can determine if the third pair of arms are longer than the others and if you see it trying to bury (may not try this because of the thin bottom substrate) and arms can be thrown or damaged.

This is the shot that seems to look aculeatus but the first ones show a lot of webbing that we don't usually see in A. aculeatus photos. It is interesting to note that delfilippi can also detach an arm:

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And the eye star in this one:
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D,

I added a few new pics to my photobucket account and some of them show the curled arm you asked for. Check them out to see if any of them are useful for your thread on the topic.
 
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