Herpetology

cthulhu77 said:
FYI, this thing called kapoc or pakoc or whatever, seems to derive some sort of pleasure from presenting his/her/its self as an academic...not to worry. It is probably just some prepubescent kid with lots of acne and some time on its hands. Not to worry.
All -- this is a worthwhile thread and I don't want to begin removing any posts or end up locking it, but I will if insults abound. Let's agree to put the original "pakoc thread" behind us -- the charades are over.

No response to this post is necessary (or desired!). Thanks!
 
Point taken.
Colin...I guess you are right...I just went into the ven. room, and rattlesnakes sleeping aren't all that exciting or pushing the boundries of science. :smile:
I also agree with you that it takes a keeper with a certain amount of experience and dedication to maintain a ven. collection, and blue rings should not be available to everyone...but the amount of bites that have been sustained in captivity (none in the u.s., as far as I can tell) certainly should not preclude its being available. Most stores out here ( I actually did call them all yesterday-gosh, just like research!) wouldn't even order one for me, citing their "deadly" characteristics. So, in a sense, the retail pet market is doing a fairly good job of policing itself...kind of a suprise, but a good one. I have never seen a blue ring for sale in a tank, I have always had to order them, and even that is a pain in the rear (can I say that?).
Greg
 
I also agree with your view of poor husbandry...I have picked up several hawks and falcons that had to be euthanized because the well-meaning homeowner had kept the injured bird in a box with some paper towels and fed it bread for a few days...I really do believe, though, that the growing existance of "nature" shows has done wonders for the general public insomuch as far as educating them on basic habits and food preferences of many non-domestic animals. I regularly give talks at schools around the state, and the difference in education (re:animals) is amazingly different from a decade ago. In fact, most people I talked to yesterday (checkout cashiers, a waitress, gas station attendant, etc) actually KNEW what a blue ring octopus was, and that it was deadly...you have to admit, it certainly is a sensational animal!
I too have taken in my share of sick iguanas, pythons, boas, etc...and it does get depressing. But I have found that most of the people, once educated on the mistakes they may have made, will not do it again. The pet trade is a little to blame for this...I have often heard pet store salespersons (now how is THAT for PC, Tony?:smile:) tell a potential buyer that "this a special breed of burmese python that only gets to be 5' long, etc..." Especially with our rotten recession going on, stores are doing anything they can to sell animals and tanks, however possible. I make a point of only buying from local stores that have a honorable and intelligent sales staff, and I go out of my way to support them...when the Phoenix Zoo calls me looking for a weird type of fish, I send them straight over to the store I buy from...and it has proven to be good for everyone involved.
Bottom line? Perhaps common sense is the only meter stick we can use here...it certainly seems simple enough.
Greg
 
Well said!

that's why i knew that you'd all have a look at the herpetological goings on! i just felt it was relevant to all of us who keep animals as pets.

Yeah, Greg, the kids that i have spoke to over the years have a great general knowledge about animals and their plights.. its the adults that scare me! :smile:
 
ahhh sorry,
being the new guy here, I didn't realize this "person" was a repeat offender.
I guess I just never have been able to grasp a person's need for confrontation being so great that they would go to a message board on the net with the express purpose of creating havok and discord.

But they really don't seem to be in short supply and every board gets thiers occasionally.

Best response is usually to ignore them, sorry I fueled his fire :wink:

-V
 
Colin said:
Yeah, Greg, the kids that i have spoke to over the years have a great general knowledge about animals and their plights.. its the adults that scare me! :smile:

Colin,

To reinforce that point, here's a Cambodian boy with his best friend.

:shock:
 
lets rub a rat on his nose and see how his best friend treats him LOL
 
very nice T

Thought i was in for a half engulfed boy before i opened it LOL
 
Ha ha!

And I thought Disney was the source of nightmares in children! :lol:
 
Serious point, no rubbish, just contributing to thread.

If an animal bites or is aggressive or poisonous or otherwise dangerous, other than their behaviour when observed from a distance, what is honestly the point.
Not trying to stir up aggressive responses to my humble opinion I believe most can trace their current interest in a fairly steroetypical way. They will from an early age show an interest in keeping one sort of animal or another. This interest will be encouraged or otherwise until at some stage they are able to indulge their interest and start keeping animals of whatever sort they are keen on. When they have developed further it is clear that the ordinary types cease to be as interesting and so the more extraordinary species are sought to reflect that persons level of knowledge and experience. Utimately that means that someone keeping snakes, say, may graduate from non venemous to venemous or large constrictors or breeding rare species etc. At that stage the person will strongly defend their position as one of serious study which is almost certainly true but the steps that brought them there are based on a need for more interesting, unusual subjects. I would say that part of the fun of 'harmless' species of snake and or octopus and or any other species is the ability to interact with them. Simply watching them may be interesting but you can do that with harmless and dangerous alike. I keep crocodiles and have a DWA license. To be honest I find my dog more interesting than these animals. (PLease don't reply with: 'then you shouldn't keep them then', I'm trying to make a point!) I can play with my dog (its not a rottweiller or a pit bull), I can spend quality time etc. My crocodiles just try to bite me. When I handle them I 'gear' up to do so. Other than that they are extremely boring. Of course other people are amazed and fascinated by these animals. And that is my point. The most interesting thing that happens with my crocs is when someone comes to see. I can look at myself and be this honest. It is important to understand that. Honestly, those of you who have a Blue Ringed Octopus. How many times do you show a visitor your blue ringed octopus and not tell them its very poisonous. "Yes I keep dangerous animals because they are dangerous and I am interested in them because of that" is a much more honest claim than to suggest, as previously in this thread, that 'poisonous snakes exhibit much more interesting behaviour than non poisonous species' Thats just bizarre. A Dangerous Wild Animal licence licences people to keep dangerous wild animals. Blue ringed octopus are dangerous wild animals. Large constrictors are dangerous wild animals. Lets encourage rather than attempt to moderate the controls being suggested. Serious enthusiasts will always remain serious. All these new controls would mean is that the idiots are removed which is a boon for us all.
 
Dangerous Creatures

Many years ago someone said people are the biggest danger.

Unfortunately that is still true!
SARS may be the killer but you (now) catch it from - people!
PEOPLE are the almost universal common factor in any dangerous situation -- either causing it or drawing others into it.
The problem is that we need to interact with our environment to live, we live in world community, and the other people are pursuing their own objectives. At last we can SEE that our environment is finite.


Did you learn to ride a bicycle and never fall off? Think of the dangers without the objectives and we would never do anything!
Would you choose to live in padded cell, drip-fed for life?

Interests help us to learn (see post about ling-cod and GPOs) and to some extent we must take risks in order to have fulfilled lives.

The British child-safety legislation frightens me in that it reinforces the view that all strangers are dangerous. (Fact - You are more likely to be murdered by someone you know than by a stranger).
When we get to know someone we therefore change from a harmless stranger to a dangerous aquaintance! True of animals too!
(Reminds me of the golden (50 year) wedding anniversary question:--
Did you never think of divorce in all that time?
Answer:-- Divorce - never, murder more often!)

We need objects of curiosity, and sometimes it helps if they are more real than a television screen.What really frightens me is when fiction becomes more real to people than reality is (Soaps, etc.). Life is stranger than fiction, and I enjoy its curiosities.
 
Hey kapoc, where exactly is that Ivory Tower you live in? You can't make sweeping statements, especially geared as if you were speaking of a lower class of people...it just doesn't hold true!
I have a friend who studies crocodilians, and he is fascinated by them...instead of whining about them, he actually gets so wound up talking about them and their eccentricities that he gets the people around fascinated as well...Steve Irwin does this perfectly on his show, and by being enthusiastic, he has introduced the concept of finding these animals interesting to a whole new wide world audience, whether he is talking about a red sided garter snake or a black mamba. All animals, even blue rings, are fascinating in their own right.
Just my opinion.
Greg
 
Would you choose to live in padded cell, drip-fed for life?
What flavor? :biggrin2:

There is a very pertinent thread here --

TONMO Cephalopod Community

I agree with others that it's way over-simplifying things to suggest that the only reason someone would own a blue ring is because it's dangerous. Obviously all species are unique by definition. I personally wouldn't venture to suggest that no one would ever have a justified reason for owning a blue ring.

That said, there are others here who are strongly against the keeping of blue rings, for several valid reasons. So far, for me at least, this is an ongoing discussion without a conclusion.

The status as I see it is this: if you're thinking about owning a blue ring (for whatever reason), you should read and understand all of the caveats that have been published to date. Many of them can be found via links in the thread referenced above. There are many excellent alternatives to owning such a dangerous animal, and such options should be strongly considered.
 

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