• Welcome to TONMO, the premier cephalopod interest community. Founded in 2000, we have built a large community of experts, hobbyists and enthusiasts, some of whom come together when we host our biennial conference. To join in on the fun, sign up - it's free! You can also become a Supporter for just $50/year to remove all ads and gain access to our Supporters forum. Follow us on Twitter and Facebook for more cephy goodness.

Herpetology

pakoc

Hatchling
Registered
Joined
May 5, 2003
Messages
6
It seems to me there is too much scare mongering about this.
Simple solution, who wants to keep Blue Ringed Octopuses anyway. They're too small, deadly poisonous, can escape as well as any other octopus from a poorly secured tank and do nothing that any other octopus doesn't do. So anyone who keeps a Blue ring has only got it for the shock factor anyway, forget the fact that they are effectively risking everyones life around them, their family etc. I would say anyone wishing to keep a Blue Ringed Octopus shouldn't qualify for a licence on account of the fact they are prepared to keep one in the first place.
Secondly, Pit Bulls and Rotweillersare dangerous animals. They are bred to fight. Who would want a Pit Bull or a Rottweiller either. Poisonous snakes are potentially lethal. I enjoy my hobby but wouldn't want to risk my life doing it. Is this the thrill of keeping these things. The traditional image everyone has of a Pit Bull owner or a rotweiller owner is someone with tatoos and body piercings strutting their stuff with Rex on a short chain lead and spiked collar. I wonder what Blue Ring owners look like.
 

Venom

Cuttlefish
Registered
Joined
Jan 20, 2003
Messages
24
uh oh, here we go......

pakoc said:
Simple solution, who wants to keep Blue Ringed Octopuses anyway. They're too small, deadly poisonous, can escape as well as any other octopus from a poorly secured tank and do nothing that any other octopus doesn't do. So anyone who keeps a Blue ring has only got it for the shock factor anyway, forget the fact that they are effectively risking everyones life around them, their family etc. I would say anyone wishing to keep a Blue Ringed Octopus shouldn't qualify for a licence on account of the fact they are prepared to keep one in the first place.
I do.

I, for one, take great offense at your statement. :x

I keep venomous animals and have done so for 14 years. I do not do it for shock value. I do it because I have chosen to do so.
They interest me, I accept the inherent dangers and work accordingly.
Based on your reasoning, anyone who chooses to keep potentially dangerous animals should not be allowed because they want to in the first place.
I fail to see the logic. :grad:

Do I feel anyone and everyone who wants to, should be able to keep cobras?
Of course not, but I believe those with the qualifications and desire should be able to.

Do we need to mention the Equestrian community?
Horses kill thousands more people than blue rings and snakes combined.

Hmmm, how about cars?
Should anyone who wants a drivers license be denied having it because they want it and driving kills millions of people?
What about trips that arent neccessary: trips to friends houses, trips to Disney, vacations, movies, etc. Do you feel these people who drive when it's not totally needed are unneccesarily risking people's lives? Simply because they want to drive?

I have many years of experience, all of my animals are in a locked down, purpose-built, secure building in caging designed to be escape proof. Why shouldn't I be allowed to keep them? What about my Crocodiles?
Wanna take them too?
I do dozens of educational talks on reptiles and the environment every year, from schools and herp clubs to game and fish. Every year when Florida Game and Fish does thier display at the State Fair, wanna take a guess who they borrow the snakes for the displays from?
Not a Zoo, not an animal park, but from a private individual who keeps a nice collection of venomous snakes.

So I suggest you think a bit more before stereotyping and lumping people together. :roll:

Admittedly there are the thrill seekers trying to show off by keeping something they don't have the skill or experience to keep, that's where the permitting process factors in. If they do it and aren't qualified and permitted, they break the law, they get the penalty.

There are also plenty of people who have no business with a dog, a horse or a car. Heck there's a guy at my office that's so clumsy he puts himself and others at risk simply by walking while chewing gum!

If you don't want to keep them, then don't. But saying no one else should; and that they, by virtue of wanting to, are therefore not qualified to do so is simply daft.

I'll come down off my box now [/end rant]

-V

and oh yeah....
I will be keeping blue rings soon as well.
And, I do have a few tattoos :P
 

cthulhu77

TONMO Supporter
Registered
Joined
Mar 15, 2003
Messages
6,638
Venom,
FYI, this thing called kapoc or pakoc or whatever, seems to derive some sort of pleasure from presenting his/her/its self as an academic...not to worry. It is probably just some prepubescent kid with lots of acne and some time on its hands. Not to worry.
I also have been keeping venomous animals from the 80's, and have kept blue rings, and as you can attest to, venomous snakes are much more interesting in their habits than are cal kings or corn snakes...so too are the blue rings. You go for it...it is obvious that you know what you are doing, and hopefully, will shed some light on this much misunderstood creature...after all, it is all up to us!
happy cephing!
Greg
 

Colin

TONMO Supporter
Registered
Joined
Nov 14, 2002
Messages
3,985
Hi all, there are truths on both sides.

Having worked in many pet shops and also in a tropical zoo I have seen my fair share of people ask me where is the piranha tank and will they be okay in a bowl?, or can they buy a tarantula as a joke to scare their pal/spouse/mum? and 'well, if it gets too big I'll just give it back to you.' statements.

To be fair, these people rarely actually get round to actually buying the animal but there really is no restrictions to say that a guy cant buy a tarantula and stick it in his girlfriend's bed for a laugh... I feel that many of the animals should be 'harder to obtain'.

Also, in a period of a few years, over 20 iguanas were given to me and they ranged from 18" to 5' long. At best there were probably about 3 that were in a half decent shape when we took them in. Some of them died or got put down because they were in such poor shape yet the owners, who had zero experince of exotic animals husbandry before buying an iguana thought that they were in perfect health!!! A screening process would have stopped the deaths of thousands of these poor animals that were imported suring the 90s when the exotic animal trade boomed!

Also lost count of the number of times Burmese Pythons over 12 feet long were offered to us, or red ear terrapins whos shells had a consistency of cheese! Were they feeding them LARD?

It is very difficult to separate the issues here and my experiences of animal husbandry has left my view of most exotic animal keepers tainted but there are still a lot of excellent carers out there. Its just a fact that not everyone is up to the standard that these animals need. So to be fair to the animals, tighter legislation would help them.

If someone REALLY understands the risk of owning a Blue Ring and has proactively provided a suitable environment for it then go for it. The simple fact that people have bothered to visit this site for info is a good start. I do feel that 'experts in the given fields' should be employed for the purpose. And not governement workers or vets who mostlt deals with domestic animals from day to day. Wouldn't be the first time I'd taken an animal to the vet and they'd said, 'looks in great health but what is it?'

I am worried more about joe public who has no relevant experience buying any dangerous animal and something bad happens and then the sh*t hits the fan for all of us. With that I'm including anything venemous or large growing.

Pakocs' view of a Rottie owner is exactly how they were portrayed in the British media. And it has stuck since then too! That wont change easily either. So that is actually a public perception that is often re-visited.

hehehe i also think that looking at a venemous snake sit perfectly still for 3 days at a time is just as uninteresting as watching a Cali King sit still for 3 days at a time LOLOL :sleeping:
 

tonmo

Cthulhu
Staff member
Webmaster
Joined
May 30, 2000
Messages
10,280
cthulhu77 said:
FYI, this thing called kapoc or pakoc or whatever, seems to derive some sort of pleasure from presenting his/her/its self as an academic...not to worry. It is probably just some prepubescent kid with lots of acne and some time on its hands. Not to worry.
All -- this is a worthwhile thread and I don't want to begin removing any posts or end up locking it, but I will if insults abound. Let's agree to put the original "pakoc thread" behind us -- the charades are over.

No response to this post is necessary (or desired!). Thanks!
 

cthulhu77

TONMO Supporter
Registered
Joined
Mar 15, 2003
Messages
6,638
Point taken.
Colin...I guess you are right...I just went into the ven. room, and rattlesnakes sleeping aren't all that exciting or pushing the boundries of science. :smile:
I also agree with you that it takes a keeper with a certain amount of experience and dedication to maintain a ven. collection, and blue rings should not be available to everyone...but the amount of bites that have been sustained in captivity (none in the u.s., as far as I can tell) certainly should not preclude its being available. Most stores out here ( I actually did call them all yesterday-gosh, just like research!) wouldn't even order one for me, citing their "deadly" characteristics. So, in a sense, the retail pet market is doing a fairly good job of policing itself...kind of a suprise, but a good one. I have never seen a blue ring for sale in a tank, I have always had to order them, and even that is a pain in the rear (can I say that?).
Greg
 

cthulhu77

TONMO Supporter
Registered
Joined
Mar 15, 2003
Messages
6,638
I also agree with your view of poor husbandry...I have picked up several hawks and falcons that had to be euthanized because the well-meaning homeowner had kept the injured bird in a box with some paper towels and fed it bread for a few days...I really do believe, though, that the growing existance of "nature" shows has done wonders for the general public insomuch as far as educating them on basic habits and food preferences of many non-domestic animals. I regularly give talks at schools around the state, and the difference in education (re:animals) is amazingly different from a decade ago. In fact, most people I talked to yesterday (checkout cashiers, a waitress, gas station attendant, etc) actually KNEW what a blue ring octopus was, and that it was deadly...you have to admit, it certainly is a sensational animal!
I too have taken in my share of sick iguanas, pythons, boas, etc...and it does get depressing. But I have found that most of the people, once educated on the mistakes they may have made, will not do it again. The pet trade is a little to blame for this...I have often heard pet store salespersons (now how is THAT for PC, Tony?:smile:) tell a potential buyer that "this a special breed of burmese python that only gets to be 5' long, etc..." Especially with our rotten recession going on, stores are doing anything they can to sell animals and tanks, however possible. I make a point of only buying from local stores that have a honorable and intelligent sales staff, and I go out of my way to support them...when the Phoenix Zoo calls me looking for a weird type of fish, I send them straight over to the store I buy from...and it has proven to be good for everyone involved.
Bottom line? Perhaps common sense is the only meter stick we can use here...it certainly seems simple enough.
Greg
 

Colin

TONMO Supporter
Registered
Joined
Nov 14, 2002
Messages
3,985
Well said!

that's why i knew that you'd all have a look at the herpetological goings on! i just felt it was relevant to all of us who keep animals as pets.

Yeah, Greg, the kids that i have spoke to over the years have a great general knowledge about animals and their plights.. its the adults that scare me! :smile:
 

Venom

Cuttlefish
Registered
Joined
Jan 20, 2003
Messages
24
ahhh sorry,
being the new guy here, I didn't realize this "person" was a repeat offender.
I guess I just never have been able to grasp a person's need for confrontation being so great that they would go to a message board on the net with the express purpose of creating havok and discord.

But they really don't seem to be in short supply and every board gets thiers occasionally.

Best response is usually to ignore them, sorry I fueled his fire :wink:

-V
 

Latest Posts

Forum statistics

Threads
20,681
Messages
206,244
Members
8,427
Latest member
JulstheCuttlefishQueen

Monty Awards

TONMOCON IV (2011): Terri
TONMOCON V (2013): Jean
TONMOCON VI (2015): Taollan
TONMOCON VII (2018): ekocak


Top