Hate mail for like-minded conservationists

[WhiteKiboko]

it would be nice, but i cant imagine that its practical for some of the bigger fish like tuna or a shark...

 

[Steve O'Shea]

it would be nice, but i cant imagine that its practical for some of the bigger fish like tuna or a shark...

....the big question is "do we really need to eat tuna and shark?". If fish is on the menu (and to me they all taste the same) then can we not eat some cultured substitute?

Not coming down hard on anyone at all, but I don't think we need to eat everything simply because it is there or because we can catch it, especially when cultured substitutes taste the same (I am a heavy smoker though [as close as I'll ever get to becoming a vegetarian], so cardboard and crayfish have the same culinary appeal for me).
O

 

[WhiteKiboko]

shark i really cant comment too much on, its nothing special, you would have to ask in the direction of asia.... as for tuna, i really cant think of something that could be a replacement and also could be farm raised... when i say tuna, i mean yellowfin, i dont think its cost effective for me to try bluefin anytime soon....

 

[Clem]

This morning's Los Angeles Times comes with a very grim headline: "Seas Being Stripped of Big Fish, Study Finds." 90% of giant tuna, marlin, swordfish and other large species, are now gone. The study is the result of a 10-year survey, reported in the latest issue of Nature.

We've screwed things up but good.

Clem

 

[Tintenfisch]

And of course when a population booms in its last final desperate effort to restore numbers (OK, that was anthropomorphic - but stocks do tend to increase just before they crash) it's very difficult to convince people that the species is really in trouble, since they're pulling in record catches.
I believe this is the case with the American Lobster (Homarus americanus) on the East Coast / New England at present, augmented by a severe outbreak of shell disease.

 

[Clem]

And of course when a population booms in its last final desperate effort to restore numbers...it's very difficult to convince people that the species is really in trouble, since they're pulling in record catches.

Excellent point. The recent uptick in cod stocks off the coast of Massachussetts has been seized upon by opponents of strict regulation, as a pretext for the resumption of large-scale (re: industrial) cod-fishing.

I believe this is the case with the American Lobster (Homarus americanus) on the East Coast / New England at present, augmented by a severe outbreak of shell disease.

...and by the sadly common practice of "scrubbing" the roe off of egg-carrying females. Occasionally, an offender is caught in the act, or with scrub-brushes dotted with roe , but there's too much coastline, not enough wardens and way too many violators. Stories of shotgun-toting lobstermen guarding their buoys and traps may be apocryphal, but they do capture the mood.

Clem

 

[nanoteuthis]

....the big question is "do we really need to eat tuna and shark?". If fish is on the menu (and to me they all taste the same) then can we not eat some cultured substitute?

Not coming down hard on anyone at all, but I don't think we need to eat everything simply because it is there or because we can catch it, especially when cultured substitutes taste the same (I am a heavy smoker though [as close as I'll ever get to becoming a vegetarian], so cardboard and crayfish have the same culinary appeal for me).
O

I believe many people -- at least, those in the western world -- eat fish not so much for its taste as for its health benefits. Eliminating those species which are reputed to have a dangerously high mercury content, most "fatty" fish (e.g., salmon) are high in Omega-3 and known to be excellent in reducing LDL cholesterol. There have even been studies seeming to indicate that Omega-3 may be effective in the treatment of manic-depression.

Omega-3 is available as a dietary supplement (softgel or liquid), but I think even in that form it must be derived from a fish source. If a good vegetarian source of Omega-3 can be isolated in the future, so much the better -- the resulting conservation of fish would be most desirable, not to mention the economic advantage (I don't know about NZ, but fish is pricey in my part of the world).

Till then -- for better or worse -- will probably continue to be a preferred entrée for health-conscious diners.

Me

PS to Steve-O': Get rid of those cancer sticks -- NOW! That is not a suggestion, Doctor! (We need you to be around for a long, long time )

 

[WhiteKiboko]

Tani, i think you give people too much credit (as im about to do the opposite) on why they eat fish.... i think a lot of people eat fish occasionally to break the monotany of beef/chicken/pork... which is just as good of a reason as the health benefits, afterall variety is good... i think the fact that it is good for you only makes it easier to take the fish course (obviously were not talking anything fried here - despite how tasty it can be).... i think youre right about the omega 3 (and omega 7 is also significant, at least i think) coming just from fish sources, but im not sure how an engineered suppliment would come out, a is the case with most things mother nature has been in the kitchen a tad bit longer and knows a few things we dont.... i think a vegetarian taking those suppliments seems a little odd, afterall the fish is still dead and youre still ingesting the end result.... unless its a religous thing, i dont get vegetarians...we have the teeth to eat a variety of things and are usually healthier when we do.... you can eat healthy without avoiding anything as long as you use a little sense...

as for the cost of fish, i think it all depends on where you are...obviously inland and places where cos of living are higher, you are going to pay more... having lived in several spots along the coast, i can say in general that you can find decent priced fish... actually in the grocery stores here in charlotte you can find great prices on farm raised salmon and yellowfin... yes i know its been frozen but like everyone knows, a chunk of all fish is frozen at some point (on the boat)

in regards to Steve's cigarettes, everyone has their vices.. if you dont, im a little suspicious of you (by vices i dont limit myself to something that may be bad for you, just anything you enjoy)... i am against people trying to save other people from themselves...steve is a grown man, and intelligent one at that, hes capable of making his own choices... i know id raise hades if someone told me not to drink a beer while i read a book in the evenings because its not good for my liver (ignoring the heart benefit)... as long as the smoke doesnt get blown in my face, let him do whatever makes him happy....

 

[nanoteuthis]

Hiya Kiboko --

I hear what you're saying. First of all, let me make it clear that I love fish (to eat as well as to study/admire). I would gladly fight a grizzly bear for a good salmon steak, and my ethnic background (by nature and nurture) has imprinted me with a fondness for anything fishy and smoked which fits on a bagel with cream cheese -- lox, sturgeon, sable, pickled herring, whitefish salad, etc. -- not to mention that elusive species, Gefilte brooklynensis.

What I was referring to was Steve-O's comment: "I don't think we need to eat everything simply because it is there or because we can catch it" -- which sounded to me like an indictment against eating fish in general. (Steve-O', please correct me if that isn't what you meant.) The point I was making is that there is a definite advantage to including fish in one's diet, and not just because it is there and we can catch it.

BTW, many years ago my son had a friend whose parents were Jains of Gujarati (Indian) descent. His mom, Ulka, and I used to hang out together when our kids played, and -- by contrast with some of the more strident Anglo vegetarians -- she never got preachy or made a big deal about her religion's strict dietary rules, though she followed them faithfully herself. Wherever we went, Ulka found something to eat and didn't allow her vegetarianism to restrict where we took our kids. When we went to McDonald's, for example, she and her son would have french fries and a salad. That doesn't seem like a very balanced meal, but I knew that when they got home she would be making a healthy and delicious Indian vegetarian meal for her family.

The only time Ulka called attention to her diet was once at a Chinese restaurant, where the veggie plate she ordered turned out to have a fried egg on it. In India, Jains do not normally eat eggs, but in India the chickens are often free-range and some of the eggs are fertilized. I explained to her that around here most of the eggs were factory-farmed and thus unlikely to be fertilized, and she accepted that and ate the egg with a clear conscience.

The upshot was that when I was around Ulka I automatically ordered (ovo-lacto) vegetarian food myself. She never lectured me about it, but because she was so sincere in her own faith, I voluntarily did so out of respect for her. (I was also rewarded once with a delicious home-cooked Gujarati lunch at her apartment, which was so good that I commented, "If I could cook that way every day, I'd be a vegetarian too!")

Regarding the price of fish: Oddly, though Noo Yawk is a port city (and Brooklyn's Sheepshead Bay is a legendary haven for fishermen, with numerous seafood restaurants), the culinary gifts of the sea are uniformly expensive here. Some foods more than others -- I seldom have lobster more than once or twice a year. On the other hand, go up along the coast to Plymouth, Massachusetts and seafood is far less pricey. I don't know what the difference is, as the waters are basically the same. That's just the way it is.

Vis-à-vis Steve-O's smoking: Rest assured, I don't go around randomly trying to "save other people from themselves", and I don't complain about smoking unless (a) as you say, they are blowing it in my face; or (b) they are doing so in a clearly-marked non-smoking area. However, when it comes to my friends -- people who mean something to me personally (and I consider my TONMO buddies in that category, even though we haven't met face to face) -- I reserve the right to be a bit of a "Jewish/Catholic Mother" if I feel they're endangering themselves. Once I've given my opinion, however, I don't nag -- it's up to them whether or not they want to listen to my advice. So my lighthearted-but-serious comments to Our Man in New Xenaland are offered out of genuine concern rather than just being a pest.

And yes, I definitely have vices -- they're just hazardous to the arteries (and waistline) rather than the lungs. (Where is that ice cream emoticon now that I need one? )

=

smoking =

Dieting in the depths,
Tani

 

[cthulhu77]

I think I can solve this whole dilemma for everybody...
I eat fish because I like the taste. same goes for other meats and vegetables...but there is some concern about the health benefits...I mean, the mercury content of predatory fish, scabies in cattle (mad cow)...etc...while I was reading this thread, the solution came to me quite clearly:
Lets eat Vegetarians.

Seriously...they exercise regularily (free range), eat well (kobe beef), and are very lean (90 % fat free). I don't think you can find a healthier dish than some nice vegetarian kabobs with orange bell peppers and a nice bottle of chianti...
don't you think???
Greg

 

[nanoteuthis]

Lets eat Vegetarians.

Seriously...they exercise regularily (free range), eat well (kobe beef), and are very lean (90 % fat free). I don't think you can find a healthier dish than some nice vegetarian kabobs with orange bell peppers and a nice bottle of chianti...
don't you think???
Greg

You forgot the fava beans....

 

[cthulhu77]

You know, I just never cared for fava beans...and I like brussel sprouts...go figure!
Greg

 

[Jean]

You know, I just never cared for fava beans...and I like brussel sprouts...go figure!

Just goes to show, you meet everyone on TONMO!! I've never met anyone else who openly admits to eating Brussel sprouts and to actually liking them!!

On the other hand I NEVER eat beans or any of their relatives (espec peanuts!!) course that has a lot to do with the fact that I stop breathing when I eat them

cheers

J

 

[cthulhu77]

Hey Jean! Perhaps we should form our own "splinter cell" of brussel sprout afficianados...I actually talked Shanlyn into eating one last month, but every one else I know just looks at me like I am crazy!
Hey...I think they taste very good!
Greg

 

[tonmo]

Count me in! I am a huge fan of brussel sprouts, I enjoy them heavily steamed with carrots, with any beef or poultry dish. They're my favorite veggies.