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Ethics of genetically engineered octopuses....

Bob the kracken;91530 said:
I see your point, but if the people on this site choose to hold grudges I can always go somewhere else

Breaking my own word here:biggrin2:

Bob, I'm not inclined to hold grudges, all I meant was that we both obviously feel very strongly about our point of view and I didn't want the thread to detriorate into a slanging match as it was threatening to do. By all means pm me with some reading material on your point of view, BUT be prepared to read up on mine..........this is how we ALL learn stuff.

BTW I'd love it if the Tasmanian Tiger still existed! One of my alltime favourite non ceph critters are the Tasmanian Devils.......they have ATTITUDE!!!!!!!

J
 
Cairnos;91534 said:
HI Bob, a point that I think should be mentioned here is that quite a few of us are from New Zealand :kiwiflag: where the effects are a trifle more dramatic than in many other places.

I won't go on at length but you'll note that noone said anything about white man being a cancer on society. I just wish my ancestors hadn't brought ferrets, etc here and released them.

jean said something about europeans being the reason that their are no more buffalo. which is true. but right now i'm tired, i just got home from school, and I just want to post some nonsensical thread and not debate on something that acutally has nothing to do with the thread were on right now. if I may make a suggestion, I would say that we go back to debating about genetic engenering, to forstall any bitterness that we might be headed for

to you jene I say that we forget our differences in the environmental standpoint and focus on our mutual interest in all things cephy.

from now on forget man's imapact on the environment and get back to what we were talking about in the first place
 
Bob the kracken;91539 said:
if I may make a suggestion, I would say that we go back to debating about genetic engenering, to forstall any bitterness that we might be headed for

Good plan :smile:

To kick off, I'm intrigued about whether this is really an ethical issue. I mean I can see that it may or not be a wise idea but is there really a question of is it an ethical idea?
 
like i said, I don't know much about genetic science, but it seems like it would be fine for the octopus if you took baby steps.

the problem is what people could do with this technolegy. could this lead to our enemys getting hold of super octo soldiers with 8 arms for holding 8 guns and the ability to squeeze through an inch wide hole? more realistically however, a trained octopus with increased inteligence and a longer lifespan could do amazing things for the salvage and research industry.
 
Bob the kracken;91539 said:
jean said something about europeans being the reason that their are no more buffalo. which is true. but right now i'm tired, i just got home from school, and I just want to post some nonsensical thread and not debate on something that acutally has nothing to do with the thread were on right now. if I may make a suggestion, I would say that we go back to debating about genetic engenering, to forstall any bitterness that we might be headed for

to you jene I say that we forget our differences in the environmental standpoint and focus on our mutual interest in all things cephy.

from now on forget man's imapact on the environment and get back to what we were talking about in the first place

OK by me!
 
Bob the kracken;91542 said:
like i said, I don't know much about genetic science, but it seems like it would be fine for the octopus if you took baby steps.

the problem is what people could do with this technolegy. could this lead to our enemys getting hold of super octo soldiers with 8 arms for holding 8 guns and the ability to squeeze through an inch wide hole? more realistically however, a trained octopus with increased inteligence and a longer lifespan could do amazing things for the salvage and research industry.

I think to change them that much (at least I sincerely hope so!) would be beyond us! Freaky thought tho! The main issue is that with their copper based blood their stamina would be low. Armed (pun sorry) octopus squeezing through holes would make great SF, I can see it now "CEPH WARS: THE REVENGE OF CHTHULHU!" :biggrin2:

In salvage and research tho'.........tis interesting, I know in some parts of the world researchers who want to study something elusive have trained "judas" animals eg trained goats to entice ibex close, that sort of thing. Might work.

But is all comes back if we can should we? the old ethics question! I have to fill in a 20 odd page ethics approval form which goes to a committee if I even want to hold squid in captivity, never mind do anything with them!

J
 
I think the 'should' question comes down to 'once we have the abililty, is there a sufficient reason to do it that counteracts the reasons not to do it'. (OK, yes I know I'm stating the blindingly obvious :wink: )

Now I think that the primary reason not to do it would be potential cruelty to the animal, in this case this is most likely to occur when a change we made had unfortunate side effects on the ceph in question. The risks of this can be reduced if we take baby steps as bob suggests rather than trying to do the whole mad scientist thing.

Which leaves as required decisive element, why are we doing this?

For the salvage and research options I think that there could well be an argument that it is worth it, particulalry in salvage where it could alleviate a risk otherwise taken by a human.

Even better, think where one of these modified octos could take an air hose, medical supplies or messages in case of an underwater accident. I'd say that's a definite argument to go for it.

Returning to the origin of the thread I think that modifying one to make it more interesting for collectors would fall short of a sufficient reason (cool though it would be) unless being collected for this purpose was the primary reason the population was endangered AND we were sure that collectors wouldn't then want to have a glowing one and a natural one to complete thier collection.
 
:roll:

Nonsensical. We barely know enough to understand the most basic of cephalopod science, behaviour, etc...to leap off to another tangent at this time is just plain not possible, ethical or not.
 
if we gave the octopus an inate and instinctual desire to be with humans and to serve them, then there would be no reason for the octo to escape into the wild. then again there is the theological point of view that it is god's role to play with nature and not man's, but then again(and i'm speaking from a christian point of view. If your a different religion speak up) god told adam and eve to rule over the animals. weather this means that we should go mucking around with the genetic code is up to you
 
cthulhu77;91568 said:
:roll:

Nonsensical. We barely know enough to understand the most basic of cephalopod science, behaviour, etc...to leap off to another tangent at this time is just plain not possible, ethical or not.

mabe it's nonsinsical, but all we need is more ceph information. in japan they inserted jellyfish genes into a fish to make it glow in the dark. these assumptions are for the future. plus i was kind of kidding about the soldiers.
 
cthulhu77;91568 said:
:roll:

Nonsensical. We barely know enough to understand the most basic of cephalopod science, behaviour, etc...to leap off to another tangent at this time is just plain not possible, ethical or not.

Well we are talking about 'If we could...' and one day we may well be able to. I actually think it's a good idea to think about what we 'should' do well before we develop the ability to do it, otherwise we end up with the traditional hollywood 'bad things ensue' situation when someone does something that leaves people wondering "What was he thinking?!".

Besides, the original idea (glowing ceph) isn't that unlikely. As Bob said, they've done it to a fish, and if I recall correctly also to mice and pigs. So I think that if you really wanted to, and had the cash (or a research grant) you could get the ball rolling on a glowing octopus right now (if someone hasn't already, we know that people collect rare cephs, we know people will pay good money for them, we know there are people out there always looking to make a buck,....)
 
Bob the kracken;91571 said:
plus i was kind of kidding about the soldiers.

I wouldn't be so quick to call it a joke.

Blue ringed octopus with heightened aggression - exeunt divers stage left (and boy would navy seals just love you)

drop aforementioned beasties off a few popular beaches during say..spring break. It would even take a while for people to notice as many of those bitten would never get a chance to scream and warn others. And unlike a chemical weapon it wouldn't naturally disperse, you would have to make sure you killed every single last one of the damn things (or all but one and then wait a year) which, unless you had some extremely brave divers would require poisoning the entire coast.

Now tell me that wouldn't make a nice little terror weapon
 
Cairnos;91575 said:
I wouldn't be so quick to call it a joke.

Blue ringed octopus with heightened aggression - exeunt divers stage left (and boy would navy seals just love you)

drop aforementioned beasties off a few popular beaches during say..spring break. It would even take a while for people to notice as many of those bitten would never get a chance to scream and warn others. And unlike a chemical weapon it wouldn't naturally disperse, you would have to make sure you killed every single last one of the damn things (or all but one and then wait a year) which, unless you had some extremely brave divers would require poisoning the entire coast.

Now tell me that wouldn't make a nice little terror weapon

:shock: cross breed it with the Aussie one that hunts out of water :shock: that's just nasty!!!!:lol: It would lurk in dark, damp alleys just waiting for it's prey and then...................... :twisted:

oops going off on a tangent again !!! :roll: :roll:

J
 
Jean;91586 said:
:shock: cross breed it with the Aussie one that hunts out of water :shock: that's just nasty!!!!:lol: It would lurk in dark, damp alleys just waiting for it's prey and then...................... :twisted:

oops going off on a tangent again !!! :roll: :roll:

J

Of course, both of these would only be scary if transported to somewhere other than australia. Otherwise the australians would just go "Oh look, it's a mind numbingly lethal piece of wildlife that can kill you just by looking at you......same old same old." :wink:
 
Cairnos;91589 said:
Of course, both of these would only be scary if transported to somewhere other than australia. Otherwise the australians would just go "Oh look, it's a mind numbingly lethal piece of wildlife that can kill you just by looking at you......same old same old." :wink:

True, true :biggrin2: They do seem to have more than their fair share of lethally toxic critters!

J
 

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