• Looking to buy a cephalopod? Check out Tomh's Cephs Forum, and this post in particular shares important info about our policies as it relates to responsible ceph-keeping.

Complete newbie requesting help with first octopus setup!

And three more questions:

1. RO/DI filter. Does it have any gravitational requirements, ie. it has to go below the level of the connector coming out of the tap? If I put the bucket in my sink I think the tube will be in a sideways S shape.

2. Replacing substrate - will I not need to replace it anyway with fine sand to avoid the eventual octopus from hurting itself?

3. What is the difference between distilled water and RO/DI water? We get distilled water out of our taps, it is exactly the same as what is in the bottles you can buy.

Starting to get quite daunted now as I realise the complexity of the task for a newbie and why the sites tell you not to start with an octopus hehe. I hope I will not make too many mistakes, I guess it will be rather trial and error at first, but I'm usually ok with following instructions. I have made detailed notes on my computer (some from this thread) to print out about what to ask about, the equipment needed, what it's for, what the levels should be, some of the maintenance processes and the step by step instructions for setting everything up so that I can refer to everything in one place. Trying to be organised!
 
? Filter sock. Is this something special? Does it come with the carbon?
It looks just about as it sounds. It is a washable fiber material bag with a collar. I place a mesh bag of charcoal in mine and it looks like the current owner does something similar. I is a nice, simple and easy to clean filter system for particulate matter.

?Circulating water round the rock: freshwater or saltwater? Put them in a bucket?
Never expose live rock to freshwater if you want it to remain "live" rock. Fresh water will kill all the bacteria that you buy the rock for.


?Food. How long can I leave it before the coral and fish will start to suffer, or is it highly dependent on species?
We feed our tanks daily (with one day of no food) but others feed every other day. My suggestion for waiting is to see what will come with the tank but you will have to have something quickly.


?Hydrometer. There were refractometers in one of the shops I went to yesterday, they were about 50% more expensive than the swing arm hydrometers. What would you recommend? Does the refractometer need any maintenance like the cleaning you mentioned of the swing arm hydrometer?
A refractometer is considered the best way to monitor your salt. However, you will have to calibrate it and keep it calibrated (not required often). You should be able to buy the calibration fluid in the same store. Most aquarists would highly prefer the refractometer.

?I'm not sure what a colander is, is that like the thing you use to drain the water out of pasta but with much finer holes, like a sieve? Can you give the exact process of rinsing the sand so I don't mess it up please :smile:
Yes (and why I mentioned noodles since the word might be strange) but you will not want finer holes I don't think. The holes are to let the water out, not the sand and it packs in pretty tightly. A sieve might clog more easily and we just want a simple rinse.

? RO/DI filter. Does it have any gravitational requirements, ie. it has to go below the level of the connector coming out of the tap? If I put the bucket in my sink I think the tube will be in a sideways S shape.
It runs from your water pressure so there is no orientation problem.


?Replacing substrate - will I not need to replace it anyway with fine sand to avoid the eventual octopus from hurting itself?
If it is sand, no. If it is sharp pieces of large crushed coral it might be a good idea. The octo does not need "sugar" sand (extremely fine sand like sugar, or at least the over refined stuff we get here). A sharp substrate could cause small cuts that in themselves are not serious but the likelyhood of infection is a big concern.


?What is the difference between distilled water and RO/DI water? We get distilled water out of our taps, it is exactly the same as what is in the bottles you can buy.
The process of purification. RO/DI water is tap (usually) water run through a series of particulate and carbon filters and then run through a very very fine membrane (the RO, reverse osmosis part). The final stage (DI, or deionizer) is a silicate sand that removes metals suspended in the water. Distilled water is water that is turned into steam and collected using a distilling process like making alcoholic beverages. The slight advantage to sealed distilled water is that the distilling process kills bacteria where the RO/DI process does not. Your tap water will not retain the bacteria free advantage and may contain chemicals to keep it bacteria free (chlorine or something similar). I would not know how to determine if you could use tap water since our water is cleaned but they add chemicals to keep it that way (mine contains a lot of particulates). Since an RO/DI unit is available, it would suggest you have chemical additives.
 
That's great, thank you! I think we covered everything there for now, no doubt I'll have more questions tomorrow or the day after :smile: I've added a colander to the list of things to grab from the grocery store tomorrow.

I've planned to drive to Oslo at 5 tomorrow (which I guess is about 8am in California) to get to the large aquarium shop and then onto the aquarium seller a few hours later. I looked after my neighbour's injured cat for a week just now while she was on holiday so she was happy to lend me the money for an RO/DI filter for a few weeks when I very politely told her my plans :P (lucky!) My ex-boyfriend said he can drill the holes for the wall bracket etc. if needed so that's covered.

Had a talk with the seller, he has never used copper in the aquarium but he did buy it used himself so I will take something to test the copper level when I go. He feeds the fish shrimp and doesn't do much with the corals at all, I think he said he adds calcium and one other substance occasionally. In any case, he said he would give the remaining food as well as all the test kits, a hydrometer and thermometer. The protein skimmer he has is rated for 400-600L he says (200L is about 50 gallons and 180L is a standard tank size here it seems), so I suppose I might get away with that with the octopus? I have budgeted to buy a protein skimmer for 600L in any case.

I think that covers everything on my mind at the moment :smile: So I have on my list for tomorrow, a number of buckets, salt, shrimp, small net, algae scraper, copper tester, gloves, colander, sand depending how coarse the existing substrate is, a siphon and a toothbrush lol, with the seller providing the tank, filter, lighting, protein skimmer, test kits, hydrometer, thermometer, and food for the corals. This is turning into rocket science for me now, I sure hope I remembered everything! :smile:

One last thing, on the RO/DI filters:

Osmose filter

At the top of this page is listed three Aqua Medic filters, all produce 90-150L per day, all say they remove 95-98% of the bacteria. But the 2nd and 3rd ones are twice as expensive and the 1st and the descriptions of the 2nd and 3rd are the same although they look much different. What is the difference between these items?

Wish me luck :smile: I'll post pictures tomorrow or Thursday morning.
 
I would not bother with a copper test kit. If there is copper from before the current owner, it will be too small to detect (but still could be lethal) so the test kits are pretty useless for this.

I can't translate (I have heard it said that people are tri-lingual, bi-lingual and American, I am the English speaking only later :oops:) the information in the RO units but the third one looks familiar enough to identify two particulate canisters and a reverse osmosis (RO) filter. What I don't see is a deionizer (it will be a sand filled container but may be opaque, mine is transparent). In the others I don't see the typical particulate canisters but the shape of either of the other two may be DI filters. Do you know if you have high mineral content in your water? The DI part of the filtration takes out the minerals and metals (copper being the most imporatant to remove). Ideally you will have one of more particulate filters, one or more carbon filters (for chemicals), a single reverse osmosis filter and a DI (deionizing) filter. The greater the number of carbon and particulate filters before the RO the better you can extend the life of the RO membrane (the most costly part of the system).

We may turn you into an aquariest yet :biggrin2:

PS, I am also a Computer Programmer.
 
Ok, thanks for the explanation. I know that (and was told again on Monday by the saltwater guy I met) the water here is extremely clean; almost every town is by the ocean so there is not much pipework that the water has to travel through. It is more or less just desalinated and sent to our homes. What the mineral content is, I have absolutely no idea.

Reading the instruction manual to the first item on that page, it mentions reverse osmosis but not de-ionization. I will ask about Norwegian tap water quality when I go to the aquarium today and what is needed. I am quite sure the water here is much cleaner than what the average American home receives at the tap, but the aquarium will surely know what is needed to make it safe for a saltwater aquarium.
 
I am curious as to the amount of Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) out of your tap in Norway. I'm assuming you are on "Town Water" and not drawing out of your own well. I heard that chlorine can degrade an RO / DI system quicker than normal, but not positive on that.
I draw off of a shallow well. Water is considered "soft" and TDS is between 90 and 100 ppm. Post RO unit I read 3 - 4 ppm and post DI 0 ppm. DI resin absorbs / adsorbs the last of the contaminants post RO and for me, after about 6 mos I may read 6 - 8 ppm post DI, indicating to me that it's time to change out the resin.

If you all save your spent resin, it can be recycled (recharged) and reused, but the chemicals required might not be nice to work with.
Remember - Safety First:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-09/nftt/index.php

Oh, if you are near the ocean, I am guessing you should be able to collect many food items for your lucky octopus. I want to get one someday and figure if they'll eat periwinkle snails then I haven't any worries about getting food. Small crabs seem abundant as well.
 
Hi guys,

I am INCREDIBLY UPSET, kicking myself, and actually feeling rather depressed. I will give a full report on the day tomorrow as it is now 3am, Thomas and I have been 'aquariuming' since 5pm, so, I got my shiny new aquarium home, up my spiral staircase, and on the 3rd or 4th last step, I cracked the back pane of glass :frown: :frown: :frown:

It has 3 cracks going from one of the two outflow pipes in the overflow tank to near the bottom, and one crack between the two outflow pipes. Is there anything I can do to salvage it? I'm incredibly upset with myself :frown: I have very little money left this month to do anything about it.

Now I have some hard corals, soft corals, live rock, snails, hermit crabs and a clownfish, but most importantly about $450 worth in Norway prices of live rock, they are in 2 buckets of saltwater that we siphoned from the tank, just sitting in my living room. The guy gave me two circulation pumps so I have plugged those in and put one in each bucket, so there is circulation, but that's it. What the hell do I do to keep these guys alive while I do something about the glass?

And what can I do about the glass, if anything, or do I have to buy another aquarium? :frown:

Any quick reply would be good, I have one more opportunity to get driven around for tomorrow and that'll be it for a while.
 
OH NO! so sorry to here! I hate to say but there is really nothing you can do to save the broken tank. replacing it is the only option. When full of water there is so much pressure it is likely the tank will give out, them you'll have a real mess.

The Live rock should be OK in the bucket with circulating water, for some time.

Its hard to say with the corals and fish but what I would do is keep them in the buckets with goos circulation and even setup the aquarium lights up so they still get light for a few hours a day. Your best chances of having success with the fish and corals will be to change the water in the buckets as much as possible. If I think of any other ideas I will post them but thats all for now.
 
Can I not use a silicone gun on the cracks, or replace the panel? (preferably the first because I dont have the money to have glass professionally cut right now). I have seen a site which basically describes removing the pane of glass using razor blades to wear down the silicone, cleaning all the silicon off the joints properly, then covering the cracks with silicone, re-attaching the panel and letting it cure for 24 hours. Is it worth a try?
 
Also just seen YouTube video of basically cutting a piece of glass the same size, siliconing over the cracks and then placing the new pane on the inside of the tank and siliconing it onto the cracked piece.
 
You may be able to filter with carbon and deIonize without the reverse osmosis. I know of at least one person successfully doing this but it is unlikely that there is not some from of chlorine in the water so at least a good carbon filter is likely required. Again, it is hard to second guess and local info on what is in the water (not opinion) is best.
 
I bought a reverse osmosis filter today and got the bracket drilled on my wall, it is running in the membrane now so I'll discard the first couple of buckets and tomorrow night I should be able to mix up some salt water. So I don't think water supply will be a problem, the specs say it tops out at 20 gallons a day and the fish and rock are in 7.5 gallon buckets.

De-ionization is not required in Norway, every single saltwater aquarist and shopkeeper I've talked to has said the same thing, so they just sell RO filters.

Anything else? I dont have any hooks for my lights yet to go in the ceiling but I can adapt my chandelier I'm sure, I'll do it tomorrow.
 
Sorry, I missed the excitement somehow. The option to double the glass by inserting a new piece and siliconing it to the old piece sounds like the most viable option EXCEPT you are in trouble with the drilled holes. It still may be doable but will be more difficult since the holes must match up.

If it is going to be a month or so before you can get the tank fixed/replaced, if you have access to a NEW very large plastic container (we have them here. They usually 60 -90 cm long and 40-50 cm deep, inexpensive, come with a top and are are used for storage of odd "stuff". You can set one of these up as your "tank" and place the corals and fish inside (leave it bare bottom, without the sand). The canister filter can be set up as a filter (even if it was only used as a pump originally) so you will need to purchase the recommened filter floss and carbon AND you will need to put something over the intake to prevent it from sucking up the fish but still allow water flow. You will need to be very careful that the tubes will NOT slip out of the tank and drain the water out of the temporary facility. I would suggest setting this up on your vinyl floor. If you can rig the lighting over the temporary tank, that will help save the corals (the fish will be fine with room light). If you can put some of the LR in the temporary tank and consolidate the rest into a single bucket, you can add that power head to the temporary tank but the canister may provide enough flow.
 
Well if I can get the glass, I can fix it tomorrow. There is a bit of water over the substrate in the tank at the moment, I just went to inspect a bit further and realised the water is way over the crack level and not leaking at all - I certainly wouldn't fancy putting more water in it right now and I will take out the substrate and siphon out the rest of the water in the morning I think.

I just checked the price of a silicone gun and 100% pure silicon online and it's doable, I'm sure getting a smoothed rectangular pane of glass is not expensive but as you said the holes are a real problem and will probably drive the cost up. I was thinking I could just get a rectangular pane that goes upto the overflow holes but of course then I realised the water level has to go above that so the overflow actually works. I'll make some calls tomorrow and see how much it's going to be.

The worst case scenario on the glass would be that I'd have to wait til 7th when I will have more money. If an aquarium can indeed be fixed in this manner, that will be the longest it will take me to get everything.

I don't have any big plastic containers except the buckets I got today which are all 7.5 gallon (30 liters), and there is an issue with using hooks in my roof to suspend the lights above the vinyl floor that I hadn't thought about: it's a traditional Norwegian house with a 45 degree sloping roof incline. Living room doesn't have that problem; so I will have to get a cord for one of the light sides if I put it on the vinyl floor. I will check in town tomorrow for large plastic containers.

You lost me a bit with the canister filter sentence, the tank has a sump with a protein skimmer and three separate water areas, and a return pump. There is nothing in the tank itself besides the overflow area at the top and a hang-on powerhead which I removed and placed in one of the buckets. There are a number of pumps in the sump: the first area with the skimmer and filter sock (no carbon in it AFAIK) just spills over to the 2nd area, which has two pumps: one going to the 3rd area which is lit with a small light, and the return pump.

I had intended to take a lot of pictures of the tank, sump and the enormous amount of accessories he threw in for free that are now on my floor, as I don't know what all of it is for and what kind of immediate maintenance should be done. Despite reading for weeks on the subject and trying to be as informed as possible, I felt woefully underprepared when I saw the complexity of his setup and watched him dismantle everything. I was sure to swallow my pride and asked lots of dumb questions!
 
I felt woefully underprepared when I saw the complexity of his setup and watched him dismantle everything
LOL, I saw this coming, not just because you are totally new but because disassembling and reassembling anything with this many parts is going to be confusing. You are certainly getting lessons in more than you expected but the science is important to understand, not only for our aquariums but for the health of our oceans as well.

I thought the Eheim was a canister filter and not just a pump so filtering with it makes no sense, my confusion :oops: They are well known for their canister filters and I have seen (particularly in Europe) canister's used as a return pump. This set up is more similar to mine than I realized. So, if you have to go for an extended period, you will need to siphon off the waste at the bottom of the plastic tub and replace it with new water and you will have to add a circulation pump if you go the route.

To disguise the crack esthetically, you can darken the back of the tank. Some people use paint (on the OUTSIDE) but I use a plastic film if it is not already blacked from the manufacturer (when I buy new, I look for a black backed tank, I don't like the back wall showing through, some people use blue to give the water a blue look).

You might look for brackets or something simple (I use painted wooden blocks on one system) to set on top of the tank cover and then place the light fixture on top of that rather than suspending it from the ceiling unless it is a pendent style fixture (one that can only be hung and has no surface that does not get hot - which it may be but I can't tell from the pictures).
 

Shop Amazon

Shop Amazon
Shop Amazon; support TONMO!
Shop Amazon
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon and affiliated sites.
Back
Top