Complete newbie requesting help with first octopus setup!

[CaptFish]

I cant think of a solution without drilling the overflow.

 

[CaptFish]

I would take it to the guy and make him drill it for free.....Take a permanent marker and mark on the overflow where the holes on the tank are so he can see exactly how he needs to drill it. Or take him both, which is a huge pain.

 

[djkaty]

Can't, it's a 3 hour drive away, the pet shop guy picked up the tank from there for me as a favour. How will drilling the overflow help anyway, the bulkheads still wont fit.

 

[CaptFish]

Oh, I thought you found a place that could get you or make you any size bulkhead you need.

Hmmm, can you get a new overflow box, or an internal overflow?

 

[CaptFish]

these are internal over flows

http://www.wetdryfilter.com/intern7.jpg

http://www.wetdryfilter.com/intern11.jpg

 

[djkaty]

Well I could go to that place tomorrow but Im assuming itll be expensive, and when I saw the centerisation problem I realised they probably wont be able to do anything without drilling the tank or overflow anyway.

Sure I thought of getting another overflow, but what do I do about the holes then?

 

[CaptFish]

A new overflow box will likely not have any holes in it. so you drill two new holes in it that are lined up properly. The internal overflows dont require any drilling they just get siliconed to the tank.

 

[djkaty]

ah ok... well I can do that a bit later on (get paid again next week); in the meantime I just made a plastic square out of a CD case with a knife and siliconed it to the inside of the overflow over the far end hole. It will have to do for now.

 

[Joe-Ceph]

I would take it to the guy and make him drill it for free.....Take a permanent marker and mark on the overflow where the holes on the tank are so he can see exactly how he needs to drill it. Or take him both, which is a huge pain.

I agree. I think you should use a permanent felt tipped marker to draw circles on the overflow in the places where you want him to drill the 2" holes so that they line up with the holes he put into your tank. Then go talk to him and try to get him to drill the new larger holes in your overflow. I think he (his shop?) should also pay for your new bulkheads and other new plumbing, since you can't use the old plumbing because of this guy's mistake. The danger of plugging one of the holes is that if you need to use a 1" (25mm) bulkhead to get around your large hole problem, you'll have very restricted flow compared to the two 1.24" (32mm) bulkheads your system was designed for.

Just to help ensure you have no new headaches, this is the procedure I recommend for having the holes drilled in your overflow.
1) Place the tank stand where you intend for it to go, and place the tank on it. (because floors aren't always level)
2) Then, with one hand, hold the overflow box inside the tank where you think it should go. Remember that the water level inside the tank will be about even with the top edge of your overflow (maybe a couple mm above that if you have a high water flow rate), so try not to place the box too high.
3) Using your level make sure that the top edge of the overflow box is level.
4) From the back of the tank, use a permanent felt tipped marker to draw a circle on the back of the overflow box, by tracing around the inside of the hold in the glass. If you are certain that the overflow box didn't slip or shift while you were drawing the first circle, then draw the 2nd one. If it may have shifted then line up the first circle you drew, and use the level to make sure that the overflow box is level, and the first circle is aligned with the hole in the glass. When both of those things are true, then draw the 2nd circle.

 

[djkaty]

Joe, if it was a regular plumbing/glass place I would have done exactly that: marched back in there, demanded a refund and replacement plumbing or a free repair. Problem as I said is that it was a friend of the pet store guy who I've never actually spoken to, I just gave the cash to the pet store guy to drive the 3 hours up there, get me a tank, pay the other guy (very cheaply) to drill the holes and drive it back. I don't think that guy is really going to listen or care but I will call him when he gets back to work anyway.

 

[DWhatley]

I can't tell enough from the photo. If you put the box against the glass, is it possible to put both bulkheads through both the overflow box and the glass (ie how badly aligned are the holes)?. If you can get the bulkheads through both then siliconing the overflow to the tank will in essence remove the problem from the inside by making the holes in the glass the same size. The acrylic plate in the diagram I sent will do the same for the outside but it won't be sealed, just two reducing plates that create the proper holes (drilled to the same size as the overflow box).

If you can't get both bulkheads through both the box and the tank, then the same fix will be needed but we also have to work on the box. Whether we fix this one or make a new one, the problem is the same. The holes need to be the same size they are now, not larger but they have to line up. Acrylic is great stuff if you can get the proper "glue". The glue is not really a glue but a chemical that will "melt" the acrylic and make a permenant bond.

If you have a new box made, then make a template for the holes from the tank but have them drill the new box with the smaller holes (acrylic is easy to drill and Thomas can do this if he has the proper sized bit), centered on the template (put a stiff paper/cardboard on the inside and trace the holes for your template and have the person drilling measure center to center).

To use the existing box there are a couple of options. The easiest will be to cut out the back panel, leaving an inch or so of the 3 connecting sides, then take a new piece of acrylic the size of the full back panel, drill it properly centered (still using the existing size holes) and then attaching the new back using the proper cement (in a pinch, you could use silicone to reattach the back panel but over time it may be a problem - it won't cause a leak but it may come apart and have to be reattached).

If you need a visual, let me know and I will get out my graphics program and give it a shot.

 

[Joe-Ceph]

I just thought of a way to fix your hole problem, and use all of your existing plumbing and bulkheads.

For each of the two holes:
1) Cut a square piece of glass 12cm x 12cm (or a little larger) and 5mm or 6mm thick.
2) Cut a hole in the middle of it that is 45mm in diameter (like the overflow box holes)
3) Use Silicone glue and glue your overflow box to the inside back wall of your tank. Use enough silicone to ensure a good seal all the way around each hole. Make certain that the overflow box is level. support the weight of the overflow box from below so that gravity won't cause it to slide downward while the silicone cures. You can use a bulkhead to clamp it, but don't tighten it so much that it squeezes out all the glue, and don't trust the bulkhead/clamp to hold the overflow box in place, support it's weight from below. Give this a few hours to cure.
4) Use silicone glue to glue the 12x12 glass square to the back of the tank, just opposite the holes in the overflow box. This time you can use just the bulkhead fittings to keep things in place. Let the whole thing cure for however long the glue label recommends (probably a few days).

When using the bulkhead fitting as a clamp above, don't use any gaskets or the white plastic washer, just the threaded bulkhead piece, and the bulkhead nut. tighten it down finger-tight.

The threaded part of the bulkhead fitting (not the nut) has a flat part that pushes against the glass. That flat part is called a "flange". The rubber gasket ALWAYS goes between the flange and the glass. The hard white plastic washer (ring) should touch the flat part of the nut. The 2nd rubber gasket is not needed (and it's too small anyway) so discard it. (honest, trust me)

You could use thick acrylic instead of glass for the 12x12 squares, but it should be at least 6mm thick, and it flexes more than glass, and doesn't adhere well using silicone, so glass is better.
The 12x12 squares, and their silicone glue, are ugly, and may be visible through your overflow box, or around the sides of it. The distance between the hole and the edge of the 12x12 square is 38mm. How far are the holes in the overflow from the side and bottom edges? If less than 38mm, then you might have issues with the ugliness. I suppose that instead of 12cmx12cm you could go as low as 10cmx10xm, but then you should drill the 45mm hole so that it is 6mm off center toward one side(so that when installed it will symmetrically cover the 51mm hole)

Other than that, I think it's a great solution, because you can use all of your original plumbing pieces and bulkheads.

 

[Joe-Ceph]

Joe, if it was a regular plumbing/glass place I would have done exactly that: marched back in there, demanded a refund and replacement plumbing or a free repair. Problem as I said is that it was a friend of the pet store guy who I've never actually spoken to, I just gave the cash to the pet store guy to drive the 3 hours up there, get me a tank, pay the other guy (very cheaply) to drill the holes and drive it back. I don't think that guy is really going to listen or care but I will call him when he gets back to work anyway.

I see.
Maybe the pet store guy will feel bad and be willing to help you find someone to cut the square glass (or acrylic) patches and cut 45mm holes in them (maybe his friend owns a 51mm diamond hole saw, but not a 45mm one, so watch out for that)

 

[djkaty]

Ok thanks for the really thoughtful posts I re-read what you put a couple of times and it was a really clear description, but I still somehow managed to be confused. One piece of glass with one hole only? Is the idea to silicone it on the bank of the tank in such a way as to fix the centering offset (ie. to silicone it in a non-symmetrical way against one of the existing tank holes)?

The pet store guy does feel bad but he's away at the moment, I talked to him about it and he tried to find a solution, but that was before I realised the centering problem.

The piece of plastic I cut is already curing over one of the holes now but that can always come off with a knife. I have to silicone the overflow box to the glass anyway so I'll be doing that shortly.

 

[DWhatley]

Joe, I think that is pretty much the same (other than using glass - good idea if she can get it drilled) idea as my original sketch - correct me if I missed something - instead of acrylic). Neal also confirmed that a gasket on the outside of the tank does nothing. The object is to get the holes that are too large, reduced and in-line with the correctly sized holes in the overflow. The misalignment, however, complicates matters if the box can't be shifted to allow both bulkheads to pass straight through the overflow and the tank.

Katy, the back glass piece or pieces (using two will reduce issues with alignment while drilling) is to reduce the outer hole to properly set the bulkhead (the same as the acrylic piece I show in the drawing). The hole will be the same size as the original overflow hole. It is NOT for sealing the tank, the silicone on the inside between the overflow box and tank wall will seal that gap and the bulkhead will seal the overflow.