Buying an octopus. Which source is better?

[DWhatley]

I've seen them advertise on eBay (same write-up) but that is all I can offer. This is likely an individual just starting out (more less confirmed by reading their About Us page) and a review of your purchase would be welcomed. I don't see an address but the livestock is typical of the FL keys. The advantage of buying directly from the collector is the minimized handling but how much experience they have with shipping is unknown.

I am a little concerned about your over concern/expectations with "what you will get". Octopuses are very short lived and you will likely have spent more time designing and establishing your tank than you will have with your first animal. There is no breeding program for hobbyists (and very few if any left for labs) so virtually all our animals are wild caught. With a one year lifespan, this means anywhere from 2 weeks to 10 months in captivity. Even the youngest wc animals will be several months old. On a very rare occasion newly hatched (or close) animals will show up in cultivated live rock or someone will have a bimac with a successful hatching but you might keep ten wild caught animals before one like this is available. The other side of the coin is that until they are about 5 months old (give or take) octopuses are very shy and rarely seen so even if you are lucky to acquire one that is very, very young, you won't really see much of it until more or less becomes predator and not prey.

 

[Drsandhu]

Well I'm of the mind that I will take time, ensuring that I try to get the best specimen, available I do not kind the wait...I have been told 2-3 yrs? But with optimal water quality and plenty of hiding places, high flow, great oxygenation, I'm not Hoping for a miracle but I do not want to buy animals that are close to the end of their life spam even in the wild..lpatience is a virtue...and my desire not to have a Pygmy is born out of you want to see the creature grow and change, in multiple ways....it will take time, for the time being, I'm content to learn, study, and take analytical approach, my basics for buying an octopus I do not believe are to much to ask, 1) where and when it was caught. 2) take photos on a smart phone and send it to me 3) I attempt to Id with you good people. 4) talk about shipping and pick up direct from facility. I think this is not to much to ask for but wise when ever...purchasing something online..... As you said this is a life long hobby, and this is my start, I have multiple people in the business searching for the octopus and fulfilling those few requirements...so everyday I look online shoot off a few emails, and wait....

 

[Drsandhu]

Live aquaria has an abdopus species from Indonesia, they have told me its not a Pygmy not a dwarf, current size 3 inches, is this the young juvenile I want, they can not send me a photo what are the experiences with them....

 

[DWhatley]

...I have been told 2-3 yrs

This lifespan is only demonstrated for some of the coldwater species (and only if kept in a tank below 65 degrees - some can live warmer but it shortens their lifespan). There is a new octopus that is being studied (also Pacific but possibly warmer water) that shows promise but is not commercially available (and not yet scientifically named). We have no records of any warm water octopus with anything even close to this lifespan (there are a few remembrances of 2 years but without documented history for O. vulgaris). The best warm water longevity you can hope for is 18 months with a male O. vulgaris (very uncommon and difficult to source). Here are a few scientific articles on longevity that you may want to examine. We try to encourage exact references when new keepers read arguments counter to what we see in the hobby. Where you read the information, along with what species was being discussed is helpful to either confirm or negate what you understand from the material.

The lifespan issues are not water quality (this is not saying water quality is not important) but natural aging. A female (and you won't know the sex in a young animal) will lay eggs even if she has never mated. She will die soon (between a day and two weeks generally) after the eggs hatch, or would have hatched (in the case of infertile eggs). It is part of their biological programming and there very little we can do (aside from one known surgery pre-sexual maturity) to lengthen it. There are two known (and one only announced in the last month) exceptions to this rule, the animals are not easily sourced and I believe the smaller of the two (a dwarf species, O. chierchiae) still only has a 12 month average lifespan (I have not kept either).

If a 2-3 year lifespan is a major part of your criteria then you will need to add a chiller to your system, keep the temp at about 62 degrees F and locate a young bimac (O. bimaculoides). At the present time, this is the only option meeting your longevity criteria. Sourcing a bimac is difficult (due to the laws in California, not for lack of abundance) but it can be legally accomplished.

One request on posting. Please don't double post a question. Not only is the staff small and volunteer, the answers will not be cohesive when split between multiple threads.

 

[Drsandhu]

Ok I understand... Yes I'm eager to fulfill the order with liveaquaria, but it might just be more prudent to wait for a O.biaserus or O.vulgaris, as they seem more congruent with what I'm looking for, I'm going to wait until the next billing cycle, and perhaps, by the there will be an octopus that I like. I understand life span of 2-3 years might just be a pipe dream, I would be happy with a young octopus that I could give a good home and see to completion and that is what I'm looking for. If your suggest to go with liveaquaria on this octopus I will heed your advice if not the I would appreciate any info among octo circles that I'm looking for a carribean octopus and that I would be happy to get it...adding a chiller, might be a consideration, in the future...but first lets get octo number 1 in the tank and go from there.

 

[Drsandhu]

I'm thinking of going ahead with the order with liveaquaria....if this is a young a.a what do you think I can except out of life span and size, I plan to think about it over the weekend...but right now, if its not a Pygmy, if I could possibly get a 4-8 month life span...it could be a great intro experience and then be ready for the next octo

 

[Drsandhu]

Another thing, is there any thing I personally can do better, to make the octopus transition better, into my tank, besides the 3hr acclimatization process, I have hiding place, already, plenty of low, water quality is optimal, large refugium is running....

 

[Drsandhu]

One more question I live in oyster bay NY water qualities reports from the town are available and look great, should I use tap water? I have n r/0 on route, all my inverts, nps, n sponges r alive n well...but I'm just wondering

 

[DWhatley]

4-8 months is far more realistic but even the low end is often not met if the animal is older. I wish it were otherwise but try to present a realistic picture of current availability and expectation.

I use only RO/DI water and strongly recommend doing so. If you don't have an RO unit, distilled water is available through most grocery stores and often through pet stores. It is safe to use but may encourage algae more than RO water (hearsay as I have never used it). Bottled RO water for drinking often has minerals readded for taste but they are not named (your salt will add the desired minerals). Some stores and all Fish stores provide very inexpensive RO water without the addition of minerals (Wal-mart did at one time but many stores no longer have the units). This is usually purchased by filling your own container and not pre-bottled. There is some concern about how often the filter is changed and and checking either home or purchased water with a TDS (total desolved solids) meter is helpful in determining the state of the filter.

Metal removal is the most important reason for the DI (deionizing) silicate used in the combination system, copper being the biggest concern for cephs and and other inverts.

Tap water has, at the minimum, chlorine added to reduce bacteria. Chlorine will evaporate if left open to the air but nothing else will be removed. Many water purification systems use chloramine that binds chlorine with ammonia and will not be removed by simple evaporation. There are chemicals that will separate the two but not remove the ammonia. The mixture is not harmful at the PH we get from the tap but raising the PH to marine level can be lethal (Here is an EPA paper about the use of chloramine, the PH information is in the Q&A PDF. Here is a discussion relevant to fish keeping). You should be able to determine if chloramine or simple chlorine is used in your water supply.

 

[Drsandhu]

Ok, got it, ro/system a must....

 

[Drsandhu]

Still waiting on the octo....what about the power heads, how should I cover them....

 

[DWhatley]

An octopus will explore any dark "hole" it can find so setting up power heads to prevent attracting arms is important. How you go about blocking the impeller from an investigating arm will vary with the style of powerhead you use. Any kind of screening you can design that is no easily removed but still allows water flow will work. I prefer to use the Koralia style water mover because the intake is more distributed and less likely to guide the arms to the impeller. For a long time, I left them uncovered but, after hatchlings and an arm nick, I now even put these inside a mesh media bag (link is for reference and not a recommendation of the seller but their rating is exellent, the pricing is good, they offer a variety of sizes and free shipping from CA).

 

[Drsandhu]

Thanks a lot, I'm cycling out some water with a new r/system I just installed, still waiting on a lot of divers for any change on the octos, and waiting for resources...thanks for the quick reply, and the link

 

[Drsandhu]

 

[Drsandhu]

This might be the one recently caught Florida keys what do you think?