• Looking to buy a cephalopod? Check out Tomh's Cephs Forum, and this post in particular shares important info about our policies as it relates to responsible ceph-keeping.

[Announcement]: Ceph Care Ethics

tonmo

Cthulhu
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Hi everyone,

I want to alert you to a work-in-progress, but first let me address the many newcomers to TONMO.com! The recent Colossal Squid discoveries and news have made TONMO.com a highly trafficked site -- well, moreso than before. So, I'd like to introduce myself to all the new visitors and to people who don't know me:

I am the Webmaster of TONMO.com, but I am not a cephalopod expert. Everything I know I've learned from all the people who post on TONMO.com, I've read a couple of books, and I've done some amount of Web surfing. I've seen a few at aquariums, much to my delight, but I've never touched one or studied a specimen. I am not a marine biologist by any stretch, and I've never owned a fish tank (saltwater or fresh). I simply think octopuses, squid, cuttlefish and nautilus (and their fossilized ancestors) are extremely interesting (to put it mildly).

That is why I have a team of volunteer staff to help out! By far, Dr. Steve O'Shea is the most renown member of our staff (with no offense to any of our other staff members!) Dr. O'Shea is on a very short list of world cephalopod experts. When a giant or colossal squid is caught or recovered, he is among the first people contacted, and it would seem that more often than not, he performs the autopsy. You've probably seen him on the Discovery Channel, and have read his quotes whenever the newswires pick up a story on giant or colossal squid.

Giant cephalopods aside, TONMO.com is very much about cephalopod care. We have experts in the field of ceph care, who have deep knowledge on what it takes to safely and ethically care for an octopus. That is the focus of this post. Based on what I've learned from our staff and other members of our community, it is my belief that ceph care ethics can broken down into a few categories. The work in progress that I mention above is the effort being pulled together by TONMO.com staff to identify the right answers and parameters for keeping cephalopods. These are the areas under consideration:

1) Species: Which species are appropriate for being kept in the home for qualified tank owners?

2) Acquisition / wild-caught: how is the ceph retreived from its natural habitat? Is there a supported / preferred wild-caught method? Which methods (e.g., cyanide) are not supported?

3) Captive-breeding: what are the appropriate parameters for breeding cephalopods?

4) Handling: how is the ceph transported? What are the best practices?

5) Retail: how do LFS represent these animals? How can we, as a community, help improve the knowledgebase and care methodologies within the store, and at the point-of-sale (e.g., the TONMO.com flyer concept, a certification program)? If you see an LFS selling x, or promoting y, or advocating z, voice your objection / offer education.

6) In-home care: Per species, what are the proper tank specifications? A matrix is needed which identifies recommended specs per species or family. Also, what is considered proper / improper interactive behavior? e.g., "never try to make your cephalopod ink. do not tug on their arms. do not mix them with the following species:" etc.)

There may be other categories to consider -- again, I am no expert, but I recognize this as an important initiative. Because this is a community and we have many experts who visit TONMO.com, I wanted to share with you our ambition to set these parameters in the most appropriate and responsible way we can imagine. As ever, the primary focus is the health and well-being of the cephalopod.

Any thoughts or input is welcomed as these "statements" are defined. Thank you!
 
Tony,
How about a positive Tank Mates and Fauna subtopic. Posting what not to do is always warranted but posting what TO DO is often more helpful, especially during initial tank setup. This might include recommended hardware as well if any members have found specific hardware that is easier to octo proof.
 
Thanks D -- I appreciate the input.

Regarding hardware, I'd think the Tank Talk forum would be good for this? To your point, there may be an opportunity for sub-forums under our top-level categories. Tank Mates is a good one, I think.
 
We've stayed away from recommending specific bands of equipment (hardware). There is no one ideal set-up and a lot depends on your budget, space, experience, etc. New hardware is coming out all the time, and a would-be ceph keeper should visit an LFS to start with, and then do some reading.

We tell people what they need in general and they are welcome to ask questions (does anyone have this?) or search for a specific brand. We are always discussing specific protein skimmers, tanks, etc. In Tank Talk, there is a thread (sticky), where people list what they have and how much it cost, which could be used as a model.

We will be looking at all Ceph Care information this year and seeing what needs updating and improvement. We welcome suggestions.

Nancy
 
Nancy,

I was thinking more in the way of stuff like cleaning tools, lid clamps etc. that could be more octo specific rather than the standard major hardware.
 
Hi everyone, I wanted to provide you with an update, and want to make sure I point out that none of this is an April Fool's gag. :smile:... watch yourself out there today!

We have closed in on our text for TONMO.com's Code of Ethics pertaining to cephalopod care. It has been drafted, evaluated, and revised, and so here is what I'd call "version 1.0", the first release:

TONMO.com Code of Ethics

TONMO.com does not support the collection of cephalopods for the home aquarium trade by measures such as chemical or cyanide fishing or the collection of rare species or of species in which there is no known population figures. Where possible, always buy captive bred cephalopods and support aquaculture.

Guidelines for Cephalopod Purchase or Aquisition:

We recommend purchasing tank-bred or aquacultured cephalopods, when available. Rescued cephalopods, whether from a trap or from live rock, are also recommened.

Wild-caught cephalopods, caught by natural means (no chemicals) are acceptable.

Capturing a cephalopod yourself is recommended only for experienced keepers, and you need to check whether you need a permit.

Do not purchase octopuses whose populations are threatened or whose status is not known, such as wunderpus and mimic.

Do not purchase blue-ring octopuses because of their potentially lethal venom.
In the coming weeks we'll determine the best places to post and promote this new code.

Please note that the TONMO.com Staff has decided to move the Wunderpus thread to the Supporters' forum so as to avoid "public" promotion of the keeping of Wunderpus. Richard is a friend of TONMO.com's and we certainly respect his abilities and accomplishments in this space, but given the unknown status of Wunderpus, and out of concern of "sensationalism" within the trade, we believe that such material is most appropriate for a restricted audience.

Thank you!

EDIT: The thread has been "soft deleted" in the Supporter's area at the request of the author.
 
As some people have been asking, it seems best that I clarify the reasons for the 'soft delete' request.

I asked that the thread be removed from the supporters area because I think I am uncomfortable with the idea that people would need to pay to read the thread.

I believe I disagree that the information in the Fontanelle/wunderpus thread is appropriate only for a restricted audience and have at least temporally moved the information to another site. I am not posting the link right now on TONMO because doing so would seem to violate the code of ethics, so feel free to contact me if you are looking for it.

While I agree with the spirit of the TONMO code of ethics, I am not sure I agree with the code in its current state or how it relates to the TONMO mission, and I am not sure I agree with the practical application it has had.

My opinions on the matter are currently and clearly in flux :biggrin2: and I want to make it very clear that I fully and completely respect and support TONMOs right to manage content of this site however TONMO sees fit.

RR
 
Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, Thales, and I do respect your experience in regards to the maintenance of captive cephalopods.

That being said, why is it o.k. to keep animals that may be on the brink of disappearing? I don't understand the rationale. The excitement brought on by the panderment of these animals has nothing to do with understanding them as wild animals in a specific habitat, and yes, I can agree that they are indeed beautiful and interesting, but what cost are we paying for them to be brought to the wholesaler's? As stated before:

are we asking ourselves "can I ? " rather than "should I?"
 
Thales;91369 said:
As some people have been asking, it seems best that I clarify the reasons for the 'soft delete' request.

I asked that the thread be removed from the supporters area because I think I am uncomfortable with the idea that people would need to pay to read the thread.

I believe I disagree that the information in the Fontanelle/wunderpus thread is appropriate only for a restricted audience and have at least temporally moved the information to another site. I am not posting the link right now on TONMO because doing so would seem to violate the code of ethics, so feel free to contact me if you are looking for it.

While I agree with the spirit of the TONMO code of ethics, I am not sure I agree with the code in its current state or how it relates to the TONMO mission, and I am not sure I agree with the practical application it has had.

My opinions on the matter are currently and clearly in flux :biggrin2: and I want to make it very clear that I fully and completely respect and support TONMOs right to manage content of this site however TONMO sees fit.

RR

Thanks for the explication. With hindsight, I am a bit dismayed that it could be interpreted as arbitrary, draconian, or "out of the blue." We've actually been involved in discussion for some time... in fact, one of the main motivators for the decision that it would be a good idea to adopt an ethics policy is that we frequently find that since TONMO has become a rather well-known site for various things cephy, we have both opportunity and unsought responsibility to try to figure out how to influence the world in a positive direction, or at least not accidentally cause harm. I think I can safely say that the staff as a whole is clear on the statement of ethics. I think, though, that we're open to suggestions on how to apply this ethical position to running the site...

I would very much like to involve the community in determining how this code of ethics should be communicated, implemented, and spread. I don't believe it is our intention to say that wunderpuses should be a taboo subject for discussion outside the supporters section, just that we need to make sure that we don't contribute to overcollection of these animals in the wild to the point of endangerment. In general, I see the code as something that should inspire people to be responsible in ceph-keeping, such that they help teach others about how to keep animals in responsible ways, and tell their LFSes when they are selling potentially endangered (or dangerous) animals.

Frankly, I find your pictures and videos of all your cephs are so well-produced, amazing, charismatic, well-paced, and entertaining that they're among my first choices for showing my friends how cool cephs are, and the Fontanelle pictures and videos are no exception. Obviously, this is largely a good thing for entertainment, and perhaps for raising the issue of a need for wunderpus conservation to the public, but there is a valid and worrisome concern that it will also lead to increased demand for these animals that could drive the collection of them to disastrous levels.

I think it's still an open question how best to address this concern. I've largely put my wunderp.us site on hold as well, because I'm not sure how to make a web site devoted to how amazing these critters are while also making it glaringly obvious that any demand for these animals as pets puts them at terrible risk for overcollection. I think the concern about the thread in question is that a lot of cocky people will say "that guy kept a wunderpus in his tank at home, and I'm a l33t F1sh Xpert, so I can do it" (or "I'm rich, so I'll pay my tank tender to keep a wunderpus in my bedroom tank to impress chicks").

I'm not sure how this works, but apparently there is frequently a "perfect storm" in the exotic/ornamental animal trade that leads to people living near the native habitat to suddenly realize that there is a resource that can be exploited for short-term profit, and if the animal doesn't have good natural defenses from over-collection, it can rapidly become endangered or extinct. I don't know how we can influence collectors directly to avoid this danger, but I believe that TONMO has an opportunity to have some influence on people's willingness to pay for these animals. I'd vastly prefer to have your cooperation to leverage this influence rather than to make you feel alienated or obligated to take your stories, pictures, and videos elsewhere.

Speaking only for myself, not for the whole staff, I think there must be a way that we can include the content in that thread in such a way that it can be enjoyed but that it is tightly bound to a message that it is vital that we remove the incentive of collectors to devastate the wild population, and this is incompatible with having any sort of demand or profit trickle back to them. If your biggest concern is that moving it to the supporters area would require people to pay to see it, perhaps other options could work instead: having a separate area where viewers must see a statement in order to view the images and videos, for example. Or, perhaps, tagging all the images with "wunderpuses should never be bought as pets" or similar. Again, this whole paragraph is my own ideas, not an official staff position, so Tony may well think that is not sufficient, but I'd very much like find out if there is an appropriate compromise that is consistent with the goals without needing to alienate, frustrate, or gag anyone, and that won't drive reasonable, enthusiastic participants away.

:twocents:
 
I think that the ethics statement of Tonmo is quite correct.

Animals such as wonderpus and mimics have absolutely no place in the private sector, any information gleaned from captivity is way offset by the damage caused by collection.
 

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