A few questions on giant squids

OB

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Then again, there's no neuron on earth we know more of than the squid neuron; defining the best way to anaesthasize these critters should be a piece of cake, right?

Still better, go down there with a sub and (non jiggy) lure and lights and an omnimax camera :biggrin2:
 


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So anaesthasize could be difficult, so why not give it a muscle relaxant so it dose not move or movement is greatly reduced. I have heard of electrocuting fish just enough to stun them for research why cant this be done on a squid. They only need to hold still long enough to be tagged how hard can it be?
 

Jean

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ace1422001 said:
So anaesthasize could be difficult, so why not give it a muscle relaxant so it dose not move or movement is greatly reduced. I have heard of electrocuting fish just enough to stun them for research why cant this be done on a squid. They only need to hold still long enough to be tagged how hard can it be?

If the mantle doesn't contract.....the squid doesn't breathe!

j
 

OB

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I think this whole excercise would become academic if only we knew how to get the squid's attention in the first place: attaching a tag only requires close contact, not so much complete immobilization, although it would certainly help. Then again, what type of tag are we looking at? One that goes "ping!"? Radio doesn't work underwater...
 

Jean

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ob said:
I think this whole excercise would become academic if only we knew how to get the squid's attention in the first place: attaching a tag only requires close contact, not so much complete immobilization, although it would certainly help. Then again, what type of tag are we looking at? One that goes "ping!"? Radio doesn't work underwater...

sonar does tho! Ron O'Dor has attached satelite tags to squid (into the mantle cavity) And Jayson Semmens has used pingers on octopus and squid in Tasmania (requires a network of receivers tho')

In the larger squid I'd like them reasonably immobile while I attached a tag......these beggars bite and it's unpleasant and the damage to you can be disportionaly large compared to the squid. Also their skin is delicate and a struggling animal is likely to injure itself easily, capture damage can very often be fatal which kinda spoils the research AND gets the ethics committee rather riled up!!!

Cheers

J
 


Kohlis

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Do we know what the big ones eat? Other squid, I've heard? Maybe you could prepare some nice bait for them to eat, and secretly insert some tracking device into it? That way, the animal would take care of the insertion itself, without anesthesia or electric shocks, and the volunteers wouldn't have to wrestle.
I figure it like this: Take a tasty, medium sized squid, put a radio/sonar/ping/pongtransmitter thingamajig in the mantle cavity and lower it on a string into the abyss. Maybe put some hooks on it too, so it sticks in the giants tummy for some time. These hooks should be biodegradable and fall apart after a while, so that the device can come out the back door.
Then, the device floats up to the surface to be collected, full of exciting information. Neat, aint it?
cheers - Erik
 

Euprymna

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ob said:
Then again, what type of tag are we looking at? One that goes "ping!"? Radio doesn't work underwater...

Yeah a pinger but there are many types of taggs that have been developed to work underwater and that have been used for cephalopods. If you are interested, check www.vemco.com for some example of telemetry equipments for marine animals.
There are tags that:
1) send out a signal in response to a signal - transponders,
2) store data that can be recovered on recapture - archival tags,
3) signal its position with radio or acoustic pulses - pingers,
4) encode information in continuous signals - telemetry tags,
5) store information for release when saturated - radio pop-up tags etc...

It is true that radio-frequencies, are rapidly absorbed as it passes
through even a few centimeters of seawater but acoustic
frequencies pass easily through water and Ron O'Dor has been mainly using RAPT tags (Radio Acoustic Positioning Telemetry) to track squid octo, cuttle, nauilus. As Jean said you need receivers though!
But it's really amazing that with this technology you can know where they go and what propels them by telemetering jet pressure! and thus by calibrating jet pressure with oxygen consumption in respirometers know how much energy they consume...check this article for a recent example of such study:

http://www.scirus.com/srsapp/search...D+apama&t=all&ds=jnl&ds=web&drill=yes&sss=jnl

As i understand, the main challenges in developing more efficient tags is their sizes. For Archi or messie...it shouldn't be a problem! we could put a mobile phone in there no prob!

Kohlis said:
I figure it like this: Take a tasty, medium sized squid, put a radio/sonar/ping/pongtransmitter thingamajig in the mantle cavity and lower it on a string into the abyss. Maybe put some hooks on it too, so it sticks in the giants tummy for some time. These hooks should be biodegradable and fall apart after a while, so that the device can come out the back door.
Then, the device floats up to the surface to be collected, full of exciting information. Neat, aint it?

Yeah, they do it for deep water fish that you cannot bring back to the surface due to swimbladder problems! But the prob with inserting the tag like for cephs this is that unlike fish, they do not swallow prey whole because their oesophaguses pass through the middle of their brain! Only a large archie could swallow a finger sized tag without completely destroying it in small pieces!

eups
 
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So the use of drugs on a squid is too risky. So whats wrong with electrocuting them to stun them then bring it to the surface and instaling a tag.
 

OB

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Kohlis said:
What is an oesophagus, and what is it doing in the brain?

The oesophagus is the bit of the GE tract between mouth and stomach: in case of squid the "brain" (for want of a better word) is quasi donut shaped surrounding the oesopagus on its way into the mantle....

See in Green:
 

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